This thing you call a “map”, conscious experience, is part of the “territory”—part of reality—which itself is supposed to be coextensive with physics.
This is interesting, true, and really complicates any quest to maintain an accurate map.
Upvoted (the OP too). I think some of your interlocutors may be thinking past you here, in the sense that they have dismissed your central point as a triviality. But there are fundamental differences between interactions of particles in the open universe, the state changes that particle interactions cause in our sensory machinery, and what it feels like to be a brain having an experience. The suggestion that the experience of green might be illusory fails to consider that it is something occurring in a physical brain. In this sense, the most dismissive thing we might say about any quale is that it doesn’t have the meaning we readily assign to it, but that’s different from a claim of nonexistence.
I’m not philosophically sophisticated enough to judge whether this observation implies dualism. I think perhaps we’d find a lot more common ground if we discussed our expectations rather than our definitions (especially given the theological baggage that the term dualism carries).
I agree that this “map” is part of the “territory”, and that’s because the map that we’re trying to construct in philosophy—an ontology—is a map claiming to cover everything in the universe including maps.
This is interesting, true, and really complicates any quest to maintain an accurate map.
Upvoted (the OP too). I think some of your interlocutors may be thinking past you here, in the sense that they have dismissed your central point as a triviality. But there are fundamental differences between interactions of particles in the open universe, the state changes that particle interactions cause in our sensory machinery, and what it feels like to be a brain having an experience. The suggestion that the experience of green might be illusory fails to consider that it is something occurring in a physical brain. In this sense, the most dismissive thing we might say about any quale is that it doesn’t have the meaning we readily assign to it, but that’s different from a claim of nonexistence.
I’m not philosophically sophisticated enough to judge whether this observation implies dualism. I think perhaps we’d find a lot more common ground if we discussed our expectations rather than our definitions (especially given the theological baggage that the term dualism carries).
I agree that this “map” is part of the “territory”, and that’s because the map that we’re trying to construct in philosophy—an ontology—is a map claiming to cover everything in the universe including maps.