So asr, would you say violence is generally stupid or intelligent?
People often equate mindlessness with violence thus the phrase mindless violence is reasonably common but I have never encountered the phrase intelligent violence, is intelligent violence an oxymoron? Surely intelligent people can resolve conflict via non-violent methods?
Here are a couple of news reports mentioning mindless violence:
It would be interested to know how many scientists or philosophers actually engage in violence.
A high level of intelligence can be a prohibiting factor for admission into the police force. There was a court case where police applicant was refused a job due to his high intelligence thus he sued on grounds of discrimination. I wonder how many scientists choose to fight in the army, are they eager to kill people in Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan? Does the army prohibit intelligent people from joining?
Perhaps a scientific study needs to be undertaken regarding a possible relationship between stupidity and violence, intelligence and pacifism?
Regarding the violence of Von Neumann there is no actual evidence of violence, as far as I am aware, it is merely hot air, violent rhetoric, but I would also question the “intelligence” of people who advocate violence. Perhaps their “intelligence” is a misnomer, thus what people are actually referring to is pseudo-intelligence or partial intelligence. Even stupid people can occasionally do clever things, and sometimes smart people do stupid things but generally I think it is safe to say intelligent people are not violent.
Does the army prohibit intelligent people from joining?
No; they prohibit stupid people from joining unless recruiting is in such dire straits that they will also be recruiting drug addicts, felons, etc. The US military has at times been one of the largest consumers of IQ tests and other psychometric services and sponsors of research into the topic, crediting them with saving hundreds of millions/billions of dollars in training costs, errors, friendly fire, etc.
If you’re intelligent and you join, the situation is less they kick you out and more they eagerly snap you up and send you to officer school or a technical position (eg. I understand they never have enough programmers or sysadmins these days, which makes sense because they are underpaid compared to equivalent contractors by a factor or 3, I remember reading sysadmins in Iraq blog about).
Dear gwern. It is true the Bradley Manning types within the Army are somewhat intelligent thus some roles in the Arny require a modicum of intelligence, such as being an officer but it should be noted officers are not rocket scientists on the intelligence scales.
You should however note I was referring to the soldiers who actually commit the violent acts, thereby frequently getting themselves maimed or killed; these military personnel are stupid because it is stupid to put yourself needlessly into a dangerous, life threatening situation.
Regarding stupidity and violence in relation to the Army I was referring to the “Grunts”, the “cannon fodder”, the fools who kill and get themselves killed.
I am unsure regarding the actual meaning of the term “Grunts”, applied to infantrymen, but for me it is a derogatory term indicating a dim-witted pant-hooting grunting ape who doesn’t have the intelligence to realise joining the army as a Grunt is not good for survival thus some would say stupid but I realise the Army doesn’t accept clinically retarded Grunts, the soldiers merely need to be retarded in the general idiomatic sense of the word regarding popular culture.
officers are not rocket scientists on the intelligence scales.
Few people are. Officers can be quite intelligent and well-educated people. The military academies are some of the best educational institutions around, with selection standards more comparable to Harvard than community college. In one of my own communities, Haskell programmers, the top purely functional data structure guys, Okasaki, is a West Point instructor.
You should however note I was referring to the soldiers who actually commit the violent acts, thereby frequently getting themselves maimed or killed; these military personnel are stupid because it is stupid to put yourself needlessly into a dangerous, life threatening situation.
There’s still a floor on their intelligence. Some of the research I alluded to showed that IQ advantages show up even in manual training and basic combat skills—the higher your IQ, the faster you learned and the higher your ultimate plateau was.
(This is consistent with the little I’ve read about top special forces members like Navy Seals and other operators: they tend to be extremely intelligent, thoughtful, with a multitude of skills and foreign languages. Secrecy means I do not know whether there is a selection bias operating here or how much is PR, but it is consistent with the previous observations and the extreme standards applied for membership.)
for me it is a derogatory term indicating a dim-witted pant-hooting grunting ape who doesn’t have the intelligence to realise joining the army as a Grunt is not good for survival thus some would say stupid but I realise the Army doesn’t accept clinically retarded Grunts...Do these dead men look intelligent?
Are you trying to troll me with awful arguments here? If so, I’m not biting.
I wonder if they were signed up for cryro-preservation?
To a first approximation, no one is signed up for cryonics—not even LWers. So mentioning it is completely futile.
Dear gwern, it all depends on how you define intelligence.
Google translate knows lots of languages. Goggle is a great information resource. Watson (the AI) appears to be educated, perhaps Watson could pass many exams, but Google and Watson are not intelligent.
Regarding the few people who are rocket scientists I wonder if the truly rare geniuses, the truly intelligent people, are less likely to be violent?
Few people are. Officers can be quite intelligent and well-educated people. The military academies are some of the best educational institutions around, with selection standards more comparable to Harvard than community college. In one of my own communities, Haskell programmers, the top purely functional data structure guys, Okasaki, is a West Point instructor.
Officers in the army are actually very dim despite being “well-educated”.
I wasn’t trying to troll you regarding the term “Grunt” I was merely spelling out clearly the meaning behind the term, it (Grunt) is an insult to the intelligence of the solider, perhaps made because someone who thinks it is intelligent to join the army (being violent) is a dumb human only capable of grunting.
The only evidence I have is regarding my own perceptions of the world based upon my life knowledge, my extensive awareness of living. I am not trying to prove anything. I’m merely throwing my thoughts our there. You can either conclude my thoughts make sense or not. I think it is unintelligent to join the army but is my opinion correct? Personally I think it is stupid to die. People may agree my survival based definition of intelligence is correct or they may think death can be intelligent, such as the deaths of soldiers.
What type of evidence could prove “well-educated” army officers are actually dim-witted fools? Perhaps via the interconnectedness of causation it could be demonstrated how military action causes immense suffering for many innocent people thereby harming everyone because the world is more hostile place than a hypothetical world where all potential conflict was resolved intelligently via peaceful methods. The military budget detracts from the science budget thus perhaps scientific progress is delayed, although I do recognise the military does invest in sci-etch development I think the investment would be greater if out world was not based on conflict. In a world where people don’t fight, there would be no need for secrecy thus greater collaboration on scientific endeavours thus progress could be quicker thus anyone supporting the army could be delaying progress in a small way thus officers are stupid because it is stupid to delay progress.
The intelligent thing is for me to draw my input into this debate to a close because it is becoming exceptionally painful for me.
So asr, would you say violence is generally stupid or intelligent?
We have gone to a great deal of trouble, in modern society, to make violence a bad option, so today in our society often violence is committed by the impulsive, mentally ill, or short-sighted. But that’s not an inevitable property of violence and hasn’t always been true. You would have gotten a different answer before the 20th century. I don’t know what answer you’ll get in the 22nd century.
People often equate mindlessness with violence thus the phrase mindless violence is reasonably common but I have never encountered the phrase intelligent violence, is intelligent violence an oxymoron? Surely intelligent people can resolve conflict via non-violent methods?
The word we usually use for intelligent violence is “ruthless” or “cunning”—and many people are described that way. Stalin, for instance, was apparently capable of long hours of hard work, had an excellent attention to detail, and otherwise appears to have been a smart guy. Just also willing to have millions of people murdered.
Does the army prohibit intelligent people from joining?
No. Many smart capable people go to West Point or Annapolis. A high fraction of successful American engineers in the 19th century were West Point alums.
You keep jumping from correlation to causation, in a domain when there are obvious alternate effects going on. I don’t know if there is a correlation, but even if there were, it wouldn’t be very strong evidence. Being a good scientist requires both intelligence and the right kind of personality. You are asserting that any correlation is solely due to the intelligence part of the equation. This strikes me as a very problematic assumption. Very few scientists are also successful lawyers. It does not follow that lawyers are stupid.
I am not presenting a scientific thesis. This is only a debate, and a reasonably informal one? I am thinking openly. I am asking specific questions likely to elicit specific responses. I am speculating.
asr, you wrote:
The word we usually use for intelligent violence is “ruthless” or “cunning”—and many people are described that way. Stalin, for instance, was apparently capable of long hours of hard work, had an excellent attention to detail, and otherwise appears to have been a smart guy. Just also willing to have millions of people murdered.
My point regarding mindless violence verses ruthlessness or cunning is that ruthlessness or cunning do not specifically define intelligence or violence in the blatant way which the phrase “mindless violence” does. Saddam and Gaddafi were cunning in a similar way to Stalin but the deaths of Saddam and Gaddafi indicate their cunning was not intelligent, in fact it is very stupid to die so close to Singularitarian immortality.
I am not asserting this proves all violence is mindless thus violence decreases with greater intelligence. I am simply offering food for thought. It is not a scientific thesis I am presenting. I am merely throwing some ideas out there to see how people respond.
If Stalin was truly intelligent then I assume he opted for Cryonic preservation?
″...Stalin was injected with poison by the guard Khrustalev, under the orders of his master, KGB chief Lavrenty Beria. And what was the reason Stalin was killed?”
If Stalin was truly intelligent then I assume he opted for Cryonic preservation?
Almost no one, regardless of intelligence opts for cryonics. Moreover, cryonics was first proposed in 1962 by Robert Ettinger, 9 years after Stalin was dead. It is a bit difficult to opt for cryonics when it doesn’t exist yet.
Saddam and Gaddafi were cunning in a similar way to Stalin but the deaths of Saddam and Gaddafi indicate their cunning was not intelligent, in fact it is very stupid to die so close to Singularitarian immortality.
It seems that you are using “intelligent” to mean something like “would make the same decisions SingularityUtopia would make in that context”. This may explain why you are so convinced that “intelligent” individuals won’t engage in violence. It may help to think carefully about what you mean by intelligent.
It seems that you are using “intelligent” to mean something like “would make the same decisions SingularityUtopia would make in that context”.
No, “intelligence” is an issue of survival, it is intelligent to survive. Survival is a key aspect of intelligence. I do want to survive but the intelligent course of action of not merely what I would do. The sensibleness, the intelligence of survival, is something beyond myself, it is applicable to other beings, but people do disagree regarding the definition of intelligence. Some people think it is intelligent to die.
Almost no one, regardless of intelligence opts for cryonics. Moreover, cryonics was first proposed in 1962 by Robert Ettinger, 9 years after Stalin was dead. It is a bit difficult to opt for cryonics when it doesn’t exist yet.
And intelligent person would realise freezing a body could preserve life even if nobody had ever considered the possibility.
Quickly browsing the net I found this:
“In 1940, pioneer biologist Basil Luyet published a work titled “Life and Death at Low Temperatures”″
1940 was before Stalin’s death, but truly intelligent people would not need other thinkers to inspire their thinking. The decay limiting factor of freezing has long been known. Futhermore Amazon sems to state Luyet’s work “Life and Death at Low Temperatures” was published pre-1923: http://www.amazon.com/Life-death-at-low-temperatures/dp/1178934128
According to Wikipedia many works of fiction dealt with the cryonics issue well before Stalin’s death:
Lydia Maria Child’s short story “Hilda Silfverling, A Fantasy” (1886),[81] Jack London’s first published work “A Thousand Deaths” (1899), V. Mayakovsky’s “Klop” (1928),[82] H.P. Lovecraft’s “Cool Air” (1928), and Edgar Rice Burroughs’ “The Resurrection of Jimber-Jaw” (1937). Many of the subjects in these stories are unwilling ones, although a 1931 short story by Neil R. Jones called “The Jameson Satellite”,[83].....…
No, “intelligence” is an issue of survival, it is intelligent to survive. Survival is a key aspect of intelligence. I do want to survive but the intelligent course of action of not merely what I would do. The sensibleness, the intelligence of survival, is something beyond myself, it is applicable to other beings, but people do disagree regarding the definition of intelligence. Some people think it is intelligent to die.
You need to be more precise about what you mean by “intelligent” then, since your usage is either confused or is being communicated very poorly. Possibly consider tabooing the term intelligent.
You seemed elsewhere in this thread to consider Einstein intelligent, but if self-preservation matters for intelligence, then this doesn’t make much sense. Any argument of the form “Stalin wasn’t intelligent since he didn’t use cryonics” is just as much of a problem for Einstein, Bohr, Turing, Hilbert, etc.
truly intelligent people would not need other thinkers to inspire their thinking
Yeah, see this isn’t how humans work. We get a lot of different ideas from other humans, we develop them, and we use them to improve our own ideas by combining them. This is precisely why the human discoveries that have the most impact on society are often those which are connected to the ability to record and transmit information.
It seems that what you are doing here is engaging in the illusion of transparency where because you know of an idea, you consider the idea to be obvious or easy.
Intelligence can have various levels and stupid people can do intelligent things just as intelligent people can do stupid things. Einstein can be more intelligent than Stalin but Einstein can still be stupid.
No I am not engaging in the illusion of transparency, don’t be absurd. My meaning of intelligence is not confused but there is an inevitable poverty regarding communication of any idea, which I communicate, because people need things spelling out in the most simplistic of terms because they cannot comprehend anything vaguely complex or unusual, but the real kicker is that when you spell things out, people look at you with a gormless expression, and they ask for more detail, or they disagree regarding the most irrefutable points. It’s so painful communicating with people but I don’t expect you to understand. I shall wait until advanced AIs have been created and then there will be someone who understands.
Tabooing the word intelligent… hhmmmm… how about “everything ever written by Singularity Utopia”?
You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes
You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes
You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes
You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes
You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes
You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes
So asr, would you say violence is generally stupid or intelligent?
People often equate mindlessness with violence thus the phrase mindless violence is reasonably common but I have never encountered the phrase intelligent violence, is intelligent violence an oxymoron? Surely intelligent people can resolve conflict via non-violent methods?
Here are a couple of news reports mentioning mindless violence:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17062738
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/4149765/Brainless-brawlers-cost-schools.html
It would be interested to know how many scientists or philosophers actually engage in violence.
A high level of intelligence can be a prohibiting factor for admission into the police force. There was a court case where police applicant was refused a job due to his high intelligence thus he sued on grounds of discrimination. I wonder how many scientists choose to fight in the army, are they eager to kill people in Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan? Does the army prohibit intelligent people from joining?
Perhaps a scientific study needs to be undertaken regarding a possible relationship between stupidity and violence, intelligence and pacifism?
Regarding the violence of Von Neumann there is no actual evidence of violence, as far as I am aware, it is merely hot air, violent rhetoric, but I would also question the “intelligence” of people who advocate violence. Perhaps their “intelligence” is a misnomer, thus what people are actually referring to is pseudo-intelligence or partial intelligence. Even stupid people can occasionally do clever things, and sometimes smart people do stupid things but generally I think it is safe to say intelligent people are not violent.
No; they prohibit stupid people from joining unless recruiting is in such dire straits that they will also be recruiting drug addicts, felons, etc. The US military has at times been one of the largest consumers of IQ tests and other psychometric services and sponsors of research into the topic, crediting them with saving hundreds of millions/billions of dollars in training costs, errors, friendly fire, etc.
If you’re intelligent and you join, the situation is less they kick you out and more they eagerly snap you up and send you to officer school or a technical position (eg. I understand they never have enough programmers or sysadmins these days, which makes sense because they are underpaid compared to equivalent contractors by a factor or 3, I remember reading sysadmins in Iraq blog about).
Dear gwern. It is true the Bradley Manning types within the Army are somewhat intelligent thus some roles in the Arny require a modicum of intelligence, such as being an officer but it should be noted officers are not rocket scientists on the intelligence scales.
You should however note I was referring to the soldiers who actually commit the violent acts, thereby frequently getting themselves maimed or killed; these military personnel are stupid because it is stupid to put yourself needlessly into a dangerous, life threatening situation.
Regarding stupidity and violence in relation to the Army I was referring to the “Grunts”, the “cannon fodder”, the fools who kill and get themselves killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_fodder
I am unsure regarding the actual meaning of the term “Grunts”, applied to infantrymen, but for me it is a derogatory term indicating a dim-witted pant-hooting grunting ape who doesn’t have the intelligence to realise joining the army as a Grunt is not good for survival thus some would say stupid but I realise the Army doesn’t accept clinically retarded Grunts, the soldiers merely need to be retarded in the general idiomatic sense of the word regarding popular culture.
Here is a recent news report about troops being killed. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111984/So-young-brave-Faces-British-soldiers-killed-Taliban-bomb—didnt-make-past-age-21.html
Do these dead men look intelligent? I wonder if they were signed up for cryro-preservation?
Few people are. Officers can be quite intelligent and well-educated people. The military academies are some of the best educational institutions around, with selection standards more comparable to Harvard than community college. In one of my own communities, Haskell programmers, the top purely functional data structure guys, Okasaki, is a West Point instructor.
There’s still a floor on their intelligence. Some of the research I alluded to showed that IQ advantages show up even in manual training and basic combat skills—the higher your IQ, the faster you learned and the higher your ultimate plateau was.
(This is consistent with the little I’ve read about top special forces members like Navy Seals and other operators: they tend to be extremely intelligent, thoughtful, with a multitude of skills and foreign languages. Secrecy means I do not know whether there is a selection bias operating here or how much is PR, but it is consistent with the previous observations and the extreme standards applied for membership.)
Are you trying to troll me with awful arguments here? If so, I’m not biting.
To a first approximation, no one is signed up for cryonics—not even LWers. So mentioning it is completely futile.
Dear gwern, it all depends on how you define intelligence.
Google translate knows lots of languages. Goggle is a great information resource. Watson (the AI) appears to be educated, perhaps Watson could pass many exams, but Google and Watson are not intelligent.
Regarding the few people who are rocket scientists I wonder if the truly rare geniuses, the truly intelligent people, are less likely to be violent?
Officers in the army are actually very dim despite being “well-educated”.
I wasn’t trying to troll you regarding the term “Grunt” I was merely spelling out clearly the meaning behind the term, it (Grunt) is an insult to the intelligence of the solider, perhaps made because someone who thinks it is intelligent to join the army (being violent) is a dumb human only capable of grunting.
Maybe it is intelligent to be cannon fodder, but like I say it all depends on how you define intelligence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannon_fodder
I wonder too. But I have no actual facts. Do you have any?
Do you have evidence of this assertion?
Do you have evidence of this?
The only evidence I have is regarding my own perceptions of the world based upon my life knowledge, my extensive awareness of living. I am not trying to prove anything. I’m merely throwing my thoughts our there. You can either conclude my thoughts make sense or not. I think it is unintelligent to join the army but is my opinion correct? Personally I think it is stupid to die. People may agree my survival based definition of intelligence is correct or they may think death can be intelligent, such as the deaths of soldiers.
What type of evidence could prove “well-educated” army officers are actually dim-witted fools? Perhaps via the interconnectedness of causation it could be demonstrated how military action causes immense suffering for many innocent people thereby harming everyone because the world is more hostile place than a hypothetical world where all potential conflict was resolved intelligently via peaceful methods. The military budget detracts from the science budget thus perhaps scientific progress is delayed, although I do recognise the military does invest in sci-etch development I think the investment would be greater if out world was not based on conflict. In a world where people don’t fight, there would be no need for secrecy thus greater collaboration on scientific endeavours thus progress could be quicker thus anyone supporting the army could be delaying progress in a small way thus officers are stupid because it is stupid to delay progress.
The intelligent thing is for me to draw my input into this debate to a close because it is becoming exceptionally painful for me.
You should study more game theory.
We have gone to a great deal of trouble, in modern society, to make violence a bad option, so today in our society often violence is committed by the impulsive, mentally ill, or short-sighted. But that’s not an inevitable property of violence and hasn’t always been true. You would have gotten a different answer before the 20th century. I don’t know what answer you’ll get in the 22nd century.
The word we usually use for intelligent violence is “ruthless” or “cunning”—and many people are described that way. Stalin, for instance, was apparently capable of long hours of hard work, had an excellent attention to detail, and otherwise appears to have been a smart guy. Just also willing to have millions of people murdered.
No. Many smart capable people go to West Point or Annapolis. A high fraction of successful American engineers in the 19th century were West Point alums.
You keep jumping from correlation to causation, in a domain when there are obvious alternate effects going on. I don’t know if there is a correlation, but even if there were, it wouldn’t be very strong evidence. Being a good scientist requires both intelligence and the right kind of personality. You are asserting that any correlation is solely due to the intelligence part of the equation. This strikes me as a very problematic assumption. Very few scientists are also successful lawyers. It does not follow that lawyers are stupid.
I am not presenting a scientific thesis. This is only a debate, and a reasonably informal one? I am thinking openly. I am asking specific questions likely to elicit specific responses. I am speculating.
asr, you wrote:
My point regarding mindless violence verses ruthlessness or cunning is that ruthlessness or cunning do not specifically define intelligence or violence in the blatant way which the phrase “mindless violence” does. Saddam and Gaddafi were cunning in a similar way to Stalin but the deaths of Saddam and Gaddafi indicate their cunning was not intelligent, in fact it is very stupid to die so close to Singularitarian immortality.
I am not asserting this proves all violence is mindless thus violence decreases with greater intelligence. I am simply offering food for thought. It is not a scientific thesis I am presenting. I am merely throwing some ideas out there to see how people respond.
If Stalin was truly intelligent then I assume he opted for Cryonic preservation?
″...Stalin was injected with poison by the guard Khrustalev, under the orders of his master, KGB chief Lavrenty Beria. And what was the reason Stalin was killed?”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2793501.stm
Regarding stupidity and the armed forces I have addressed this elsewhere: http://lesswrong.com/lw/ajm/ai_risk_and_opportunity_a_strategic_analysis/5zgl
Almost no one, regardless of intelligence opts for cryonics. Moreover, cryonics was first proposed in 1962 by Robert Ettinger, 9 years after Stalin was dead. It is a bit difficult to opt for cryonics when it doesn’t exist yet.
It seems that you are using “intelligent” to mean something like “would make the same decisions SingularityUtopia would make in that context”. This may explain why you are so convinced that “intelligent” individuals won’t engage in violence. It may help to think carefully about what you mean by intelligent.
No, “intelligence” is an issue of survival, it is intelligent to survive. Survival is a key aspect of intelligence. I do want to survive but the intelligent course of action of not merely what I would do. The sensibleness, the intelligence of survival, is something beyond myself, it is applicable to other beings, but people do disagree regarding the definition of intelligence. Some people think it is intelligent to die.
And intelligent person would realise freezing a body could preserve life even if nobody had ever considered the possibility.
Quickly browsing the net I found this:
http://www.cryocare.org/index.cgi?subdir=&url=history.txt
1940 was before Stalin’s death, but truly intelligent people would not need other thinkers to inspire their thinking. The decay limiting factor of freezing has long been known. Futhermore Amazon sems to state Luyet’s work “Life and Death at Low Temperatures” was published pre-1923: http://www.amazon.com/Life-death-at-low-temperatures/dp/1178934128
According to Wikipedia many works of fiction dealt with the cryonics issue well before Stalin’s death:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics#Cryonics_in_popular_culture
You need to be more precise about what you mean by “intelligent” then, since your usage is either confused or is being communicated very poorly. Possibly consider tabooing the term intelligent.
You seemed elsewhere in this thread to consider Einstein intelligent, but if self-preservation matters for intelligence, then this doesn’t make much sense. Any argument of the form “Stalin wasn’t intelligent since he didn’t use cryonics” is just as much of a problem for Einstein, Bohr, Turing, Hilbert, etc.
Yeah, see this isn’t how humans work. We get a lot of different ideas from other humans, we develop them, and we use them to improve our own ideas by combining them. This is precisely why the human discoveries that have the most impact on society are often those which are connected to the ability to record and transmit information.
It seems that what you are doing here is engaging in the illusion of transparency where because you know of an idea, you consider the idea to be obvious or easy.
Intelligence can have various levels and stupid people can do intelligent things just as intelligent people can do stupid things. Einstein can be more intelligent than Stalin but Einstein can still be stupid.
No I am not engaging in the illusion of transparency, don’t be absurd. My meaning of intelligence is not confused but there is an inevitable poverty regarding communication of any idea, which I communicate, because people need things spelling out in the most simplistic of terms because they cannot comprehend anything vaguely complex or unusual, but the real kicker is that when you spell things out, people look at you with a gormless expression, and they ask for more detail, or they disagree regarding the most irrefutable points. It’s so painful communicating with people but I don’t expect you to understand. I shall wait until advanced AIs have been created and then there will be someone who understands.
Tabooing the word intelligent… hhmmmm… how about “everything ever written by Singularity Utopia”?
You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes You are trying to submit too fast. try again in 2 minutes