Certainly, I agree: there is no reason that we shouldn’t be able to know every detail about the materials and processes that go into our food, but surely you acknowledge the connotative difference between:
“Scan this to see all relevant information”
and
“Governmental authority mandates that we declare this food to contain GMO”
There are issues with compliance costs that make it hard to force disclosure of all information.
The compliance costs fo writing GMO wheat instead of wheat on a ingridient box are little.
I would be happy if the companies would have a choice to put up a scan code that provides all relevant information in exchange for not having to write things on the label.
The compliance costs include the costs of tracking the wheat through the processing chain just in case it’s using GMO wheat Monday and non-GMO wheat Tuesday.
Also, mandating the label would make people think that GMO is dangerous, because they would assume that labels are only for things the consumer is supposed to care about .
Would you favor the idea of putting labels on food stating whether it has any ingredients that were picked by illegal immigrants?
The compliance costs include the costs of tracking the wheat through the processing chain just in case it’s using GMO wheat Monday and non-GMO wheat Tuesday.
I think businesses that sell food products should already track in detail what kind of wheat their suppliers provide.
because they would assume that labels are only for things the consumer is supposed to care about .
No. If I look at the ingridients list of the Thai-Soap it tells me that it contains peas, but it’s not something I’m “supposed to care about”. I’m not buying Thai-Soap based on whether or not they contain pea’s and the obligation to provide that information doesn’t imply that the government thinks I should care about it.
Would you favor the idea of putting labels on food stating whether it has any ingredients that were picked by illegal immigrants?
That’s like the some US states requiring taxes for illegal drug sales. I don’t think that trying to enforce labeling is the most straightforward way to deal with something that’s illegal.
I think businesses that sell food products should already track in detail what kind of wheat their suppliers provide.
Why? They know it’s wheat. Why should they be able to track arbitrary characteristics of the wheat? It’s like asking them to track which wheat is grown on Tuesdays, or which wheat is grown by Jews. Their system wouldn’t be set up for it.
the obligation to provide that information doesn’t imply that the government thinks I should care about it.
Containing peas is a subcase of a general requirement “list all ingredients”. It certainly implies that consumers do and should care about the ingredients.
I don’t think that trying to enforce labeling is the most straightforward way to deal with something that’s illegal.
Using produce picked by illegal immigrants in your product is not itself illegal. Furthermore, it may be that the politicians in charge of the labelling laws are not the same politicians in charge of the border laws, so we might have lax border enforcement while labelling laws are enforced for real.
But anyway, that’s fighting the hypothetical. If you wish, substitute some other politically charged trait that faces right-wing opposition; for instance “this produce comes from a company whose owner has had an abortion”.
Why? They know it’s wheat. Why should they be able to track arbitrary characteristics of the wheat? It’s like asking them to track which wheat is grown on Tuesdays, or which wheat is grown by Jews. Their system wouldn’t be set up for it.
Supermarkets where I come from do check characteristics of ingridients like pesticide content. They generally care about providing quality products.
If a supermarket wouldn’t do quality management of their suppliers I would consider that bad.
Containing peas is a subcase of a general requirement “list all ingredients”. It certainly implies that consumers do and should care about the ingredients.
Information provision is not about whether people should care about it but whether they do. In this case plenty of people do care about.
But anyway, that’s fighting the hypothetical.
I don’t see the point of why pointing out that a given example doesn’t work is bad. Don’t make fictional examples that wouldn’t work in reality in the first place, if you want to train reality based reflexes.
Being in touch with reality is a lot more valuable than being in touch with hypotheticals.
for instance “this produce comes from a company whose owner has had an abortion”.
Let’s say a business owner asks prospective employees whether they had an abortion and refuses to hire people who had. Do you think that courts would allow that?
No, they wouldn’t. They would likely argue that it’s a protected characteristic.
As I said above, I don’t think information about categories that belong to protected characteristics should be required.
But even if you would actually engage with what I’m saying and pick a characteristic of the grower that isn’t a protected characteristic, that’s not about the ingridients of the food. GMO’s do contain different proteins that otherwise wouldn’t be in the product.
Supermarkets where I come from do check characteristics of ingridients like pesticide content. They generally care about providing quality products.
If a supermarket wouldn’t do quality management of their suppliers I would consider that bad.
That is meaningless unless
“quality management” can refer to arbitrary characteristics, in which case, no, most supermarkets will not keep track of whether the wheat was harvested on Tuesdays, or
You’re assuming that there is something special about GMO such that it counts as “quality management” while whether the wheat was harvested on Tuesdays doesn’t.
Information provision is not about whether people should care about it but whether they do. In this case plenty of people do care about.
I’m pretty sure plenty of people care whether the produce is picked by illegal immigrants, at least to the extent that if they’re told, it would influence their decision. I’m also pretty sure people would care if the company owner is gay, or has had an abortion, or any of a number of politically charged things that we don’t demand should go on labels.
Don’t make fictional examples that wouldn’t work in reality in the first place, if you want to train reality based reflexes
There’s a difference between not working for reasons that affect the point and not working for reasons that don’t. The example is of a politically charged trait. If one politically charged trait isn’t workable, pretend I instead mentioned another that is.
If you don’t think abortion is a good example, change it to “has been disclosed as a campaign donor to a politician of party X” or “has refused to take an IQ test/has tested at an IQ of ___” or whatever politically charged example you think is valid.
Certainly, I agree: there is no reason that we shouldn’t be able to know every detail about the materials and processes that go into our food, but surely you acknowledge the connotative difference between:
“Scan this to see all relevant information”
and
“Governmental authority mandates that we declare this food to contain GMO”
There are issues with compliance costs that make it hard to force disclosure of all information. The compliance costs fo writing GMO wheat instead of wheat on a ingridient box are little.
I would be happy if the companies would have a choice to put up a scan code that provides all relevant information in exchange for not having to write things on the label.
The compliance costs include the costs of tracking the wheat through the processing chain just in case it’s using GMO wheat Monday and non-GMO wheat Tuesday.
Also, mandating the label would make people think that GMO is dangerous, because they would assume that labels are only for things the consumer is supposed to care about .
Would you favor the idea of putting labels on food stating whether it has any ingredients that were picked by illegal immigrants?
I think businesses that sell food products should already track in detail what kind of wheat their suppliers provide.
No. If I look at the ingridients list of the Thai-Soap it tells me that it contains peas, but it’s not something I’m “supposed to care about”. I’m not buying Thai-Soap based on whether or not they contain pea’s and the obligation to provide that information doesn’t imply that the government thinks I should care about it.
That’s like the some US states requiring taxes for illegal drug sales. I don’t think that trying to enforce labeling is the most straightforward way to deal with something that’s illegal.
Why? They know it’s wheat. Why should they be able to track arbitrary characteristics of the wheat? It’s like asking them to track which wheat is grown on Tuesdays, or which wheat is grown by Jews. Their system wouldn’t be set up for it.
Containing peas is a subcase of a general requirement “list all ingredients”. It certainly implies that consumers do and should care about the ingredients.
Using produce picked by illegal immigrants in your product is not itself illegal. Furthermore, it may be that the politicians in charge of the labelling laws are not the same politicians in charge of the border laws, so we might have lax border enforcement while labelling laws are enforced for real.
But anyway, that’s fighting the hypothetical. If you wish, substitute some other politically charged trait that faces right-wing opposition; for instance “this produce comes from a company whose owner has had an abortion”.
Supermarkets where I come from do check characteristics of ingridients like pesticide content. They generally care about providing quality products.
If a supermarket wouldn’t do quality management of their suppliers I would consider that bad.
Information provision is not about whether people should care about it but whether they do. In this case plenty of people do care about.
I don’t see the point of why pointing out that a given example doesn’t work is bad. Don’t make fictional examples that wouldn’t work in reality in the first place, if you want to train reality based reflexes.
Being in touch with reality is a lot more valuable than being in touch with hypotheticals.
Let’s say a business owner asks prospective employees whether they had an abortion and refuses to hire people who had. Do you think that courts would allow that? No, they wouldn’t. They would likely argue that it’s a protected characteristic.
As I said above, I don’t think information about categories that belong to protected characteristics should be required.
But even if you would actually engage with what I’m saying and pick a characteristic of the grower that isn’t a protected characteristic, that’s not about the ingridients of the food. GMO’s do contain different proteins that otherwise wouldn’t be in the product.
That is meaningless unless
“quality management” can refer to arbitrary characteristics, in which case, no, most supermarkets will not keep track of whether the wheat was harvested on Tuesdays, or
You’re assuming that there is something special about GMO such that it counts as “quality management” while whether the wheat was harvested on Tuesdays doesn’t.
I’m pretty sure plenty of people care whether the produce is picked by illegal immigrants, at least to the extent that if they’re told, it would influence their decision. I’m also pretty sure people would care if the company owner is gay, or has had an abortion, or any of a number of politically charged things that we don’t demand should go on labels.
There’s a difference between not working for reasons that affect the point and not working for reasons that don’t. The example is of a politically charged trait. If one politically charged trait isn’t workable, pretend I instead mentioned another that is.
If you don’t think abortion is a good example, change it to “has been disclosed as a campaign donor to a politician of party X” or “has refused to take an IQ test/has tested at an IQ of ___” or whatever politically charged example you think is valid.