I think you were modded down for insinuating that the issue is simply one of whether “healthy people are better to have around than sick people”, and thus that knb is trivializing the value of healthy people. This is a ridiculous position to impute to someone, and doesn’t help the discussion.
knb’s point (on any charitable, contextual reading), is that doctor’s aren’t responsible for most of the health that exists (“Doctors add little net value”), not that “making people healthy adds little value”. Comments like yours—tarring people who dispute the value added by much of mainstream medicine as “against health”—seriously degrade the debate over this important issue. While we might not have much impact on the “demogogues in the wild”, a comment like yours certainly warrants the disdain it received here.
My point (on any charitable, contextual reading) is that there is no necessary reason why doctors do not add value, and so simply asserting that they don’t without further support is bad. Good ol’ charity and context.
No reason but the Hanson research that others were referring to in the er, context of the thread. If you prefer to just characterize those who disagree with you as failing to see the value of healthy people, that’s up to you.
Show me where in the Hanson piece there’s a comparison between the value created and the pay of doctors, and I will admit that I was totally at fault.
I don’t “characterize those who disagree with you as failing to see the value of healthy people.” Careful not to try and read my mind. And since tone is really hard to convey over the internet, looking back on it my edit was a really awful idea. People didn’t like my post because they just saw the literal meaning and didn’t feel like being charitable, and I shot back with irony. Talk about guaranteed to fail.
EDIT: Actually, don’t worry about reading my mind, especially when said reading just means interpreting my words literally (although I did deny that interpretation). I’ll try to worry about making my mind more readable.
STILL EDIT: A quick guide to the meaning of my edit to my original post:
“Clearly a controversial sentiment, I know,” when interpreted literally, means that I think people downvoted because they didn’t value healthy people.
Hints that there is another meaning:
The dumbness of the literal interpretation. However, this hint was a total failure; if people didn’t assume my intelligence enough to look for more meaning in the original post, why should I expect them to look for more meaning in the edit? In fact, peoples’ impression of my dumbness should be reinforced by attaching a seemingly dumb edit to a seemingly dumb post.
The odd “I know” at the end. What purpose does it serve? Calling unnecessary attention to certainty is a fairly good way to signal irony—at least in the spoken word, where all sorts of other cues are going on. But in text it’s not enough, at least if not played up far more.
“Clearly a controversial sentiment, I know,” when interpreted ironically, means that I am entirely aware that it’s not a controversial statement, and is a bit of a joke about my dumbness via the literal interpretation. However, it’s also a big signal that I am, despite appearances, fully aware of what I said, and that I am prone to use more than just the literal meaning.
If people had realized this and then applied it to my original statement, they would have gotten my message. Unfortunately it was pretty damn inaccessible, especially since the people who I wanted to send it to were also the people who were least likely to find it.
The interesting thing is that, although Doctors seem to add little net value, their pay is very high.
I’d say a healthy person has a lot of added value compared to a sick one.
EDIT: Clearly a controversial sentiment, I know.
I think you were modded down for insinuating that the issue is simply one of whether “healthy people are better to have around than sick people”, and thus that knb is trivializing the value of healthy people. This is a ridiculous position to impute to someone, and doesn’t help the discussion.
knb’s point (on any charitable, contextual reading), is that doctor’s aren’t responsible for most of the health that exists (“Doctors add little net value”), not that “making people healthy adds little value”. Comments like yours—tarring people who dispute the value added by much of mainstream medicine as “against health”—seriously degrade the debate over this important issue. While we might not have much impact on the “demogogues in the wild”, a comment like yours certainly warrants the disdain it received here.
My point (on any charitable, contextual reading) is that there is no necessary reason why doctors do not add value, and so simply asserting that they don’t without further support is bad. Good ol’ charity and context.
No reason but the Hanson research that others were referring to in the er, context of the thread. If you prefer to just characterize those who disagree with you as failing to see the value of healthy people, that’s up to you.
Show me where in the Hanson piece there’s a comparison between the value created and the pay of doctors, and I will admit that I was totally at fault.
I don’t “characterize those who disagree with you as failing to see the value of healthy people.” Careful not to try and read my mind. And since tone is really hard to convey over the internet, looking back on it my edit was a really awful idea. People didn’t like my post because they just saw the literal meaning and didn’t feel like being charitable, and I shot back with irony. Talk about guaranteed to fail.
EDIT: Actually, don’t worry about reading my mind, especially when said reading just means interpreting my words literally (although I did deny that interpretation). I’ll try to worry about making my mind more readable.
STILL EDIT: A quick guide to the meaning of my edit to my original post:
“Clearly a controversial sentiment, I know,” when interpreted literally, means that I think people downvoted because they didn’t value healthy people.
Hints that there is another meaning:
The dumbness of the literal interpretation. However, this hint was a total failure; if people didn’t assume my intelligence enough to look for more meaning in the original post, why should I expect them to look for more meaning in the edit? In fact, peoples’ impression of my dumbness should be reinforced by attaching a seemingly dumb edit to a seemingly dumb post.
The odd “I know” at the end. What purpose does it serve? Calling unnecessary attention to certainty is a fairly good way to signal irony—at least in the spoken word, where all sorts of other cues are going on. But in text it’s not enough, at least if not played up far more.
“Clearly a controversial sentiment, I know,” when interpreted ironically, means that I am entirely aware that it’s not a controversial statement, and is a bit of a joke about my dumbness via the literal interpretation. However, it’s also a big signal that I am, despite appearances, fully aware of what I said, and that I am prone to use more than just the literal meaning.
If people had realized this and then applied it to my original statement, they would have gotten my message. Unfortunately it was pretty damn inaccessible, especially since the people who I wanted to send it to were also the people who were least likely to find it.