I agree with you in terms of virtual signaling being a proper and good thing with a real function. However, I think many people’s objection against it is related to the higher order effects of goodharting and Moloch-worship (escalating virtual signalling in a game that always ends in a race to the bottom towards things like public self flagellation and self immolation). I was looking for it in the article but I didn’t find it, so I figured I’d mention it here.
I mentioned goodharting, of which Moloch-worshipping is a more specific case. I don’t share the skepticism in these comments that good virtue signaling is possible and that people can keep the spirit of the law in their hearts. I also reject the implicit solution to just not legibly measure our characters at all. I think that is interpreted a signal of virtue among LWers and it shouldn’t be.
Just to make sure we’re on the same page, we seem to be both agreeing that
Good virtual signaling is possible and should be attempted
Moloch worship is possible, should be avoided, and may be the reason for why many people hate / avoid / devaluate virtual signaling.
And you seem to be saying, yes Moloch is real, yes things can go very bad. But we should still be trying to build good norms and standards to accurately signal virtues.
I agree with you in terms of virtual signaling being a proper and good thing with a real function. However, I think many people’s objection against it is related to the higher order effects of goodharting and Moloch-worship (escalating virtual signalling in a game that always ends in a race to the bottom towards things like public self flagellation and self immolation). I was looking for it in the article but I didn’t find it, so I figured I’d mention it here.
I mentioned goodharting, of which Moloch-worshipping is a more specific case. I don’t share the skepticism in these comments that good virtue signaling is possible and that people can keep the spirit of the law in their hearts. I also reject the implicit solution to just not legibly measure our characters at all. I think that is interpreted a signal of virtue among LWers and it shouldn’t be.
Just to make sure we’re on the same page, we seem to be both agreeing that
Good virtual signaling is possible and should be attempted
Moloch worship is possible, should be avoided, and may be the reason for why many people hate / avoid / devaluate virtual signaling.
And you seem to be saying, yes Moloch is real, yes things can go very bad. But we should still be trying to build good norms and standards to accurately signal virtues.
Does my summary feel fair and correct?
Yes