I don’t think we should criticize[1] people on a public forum, on the internet where nothing ever gets deleted. For one, this is just not the kind of thread that is going to produce insightful ideas or a healthy discussion.
Second, it’s just too delicate a subject matter. I have my thoughts on the authors you list, but I keep deleting whatever I write. I just can’t find a way to discuss it in good taste. And really, how can I possibly give my critique on Venkat who came up with the brilliant “I was expecting an inquisition by a panel of Spocks” to refer to the judging nature of the LW populace!
Hm, well, I’m not asking LW to criticize them—I’m just inquiring about what LW thinks about their ideas (since LW is the only community whose input I would really consider). Right now, I’m pretty much an uncritical fanboy of them, but I’d still like to update my beliefs with some discussion (of course I’ll always respect them a lot)
That’s quite an extreme degree of self-censorship! Especially with respect to Rao, who’s practically a public figure: he’s written a book, runs a blog where people can comment on his ideas, and hosts a mailing list.
I think there’s a big difference between discussing a specific idea and discussing the person and everything he writes from Quora posts to the blog, the mailing list and the book. I’d happily voice my opinion about Tempo, or about Slightly Evil, the Gervais Principle or any of his other ideas. They’re different works though and they don’t deserve to be clumped together in one “what do I think about Rao” kind of post. When somebody is as prolific as Venkat inevitably some of the stuff is going to be good and some of the stuff is going to be not so good.
Maybe you can give a nuanced opinion about a person and his work in a couple of paragraphs. I sure can’t. It’s just incredibly difficult to do a person’s accomplishments justice with some kind of quick summary. If I don’t think I can stand behind what I write a couple of years down the road I shouldn’t write it in the first place.
Also, this is not self-censorship. We all have (controversial) opinions about a variety of topics and when we voice those opinions we send a signal. Some of these signals we don’t wish to send and consequently, on some matters we choose not to voice our opinion. It’s just a mundane cost-benefit analysis; nothing more.
Also, this is not self-censorship. We all have (controversial) opinions about a variety of topics and when we voice those opinions we send a signal. Some of these signals we don’t wish to send and consequently, on some matters we choose not to voice our opinion. It’s just a mundane cost-benefit analysis; nothing more.
I disagree. A decision being the result of a cost-benefit analysis doesn’t preclude it from being an act of self-censorship. (Otherwise it would follow that a perfect utility maximizer could never self-censor, which I see as a reductio.) As I see it, avoiding controversial opinions to prevent controversy or an off-putting signal is usually self-censorship, albeit self-censorship that’s often benign & helpful.
I think there’s a big difference between discussing a specific idea and discussing the person and everything he writes from Quora posts to the blog, the mailing list and the book.
Agreed. But I see all of them as legitimate things to discuss.
They’re different works though and they don’t deserve to be clumped together in one “what do I think about Rao” kind of post.
Seems alright to me; nothing’s stopping a commenter from using this thread to give their opinions about individual works. Besides, people who’ve read one part of Rao’s work are likely to have read others, so it makes some sense to try soliciting their thoughts in one go.
It’s just incredibly difficult to do a person’s accomplishments justice with some kind of quick summary. If I don’t think I can stand behind what I write a couple of years down the road I shouldn’t write it in the first place.
That’s a high standard. A good standard, but a far higher one than is normal (both on Less Wrong and in general). People on LW post shorthand judgements of others’ work quite often (here’s a recent example) without being 100% rigorous about it but I don’t think it lowers LW’s level of discussion appreciably. Someone saying “I’m not a fan of this author, here are a couple of reasons why” or “I really liked this aspect of so-and-so’s work on such-and-such” can be very useful even if it’s not a careful, judicious balancing of a writer’s pros & cons.
I don’t think we should criticize[1] people on a public forum, on the internet where nothing ever gets deleted. For one, this is just not the kind of thread that is going to produce insightful ideas or a healthy discussion.
Second, it’s just too delicate a subject matter. I have my thoughts on the authors you list, but I keep deleting whatever I write. I just can’t find a way to discuss it in good taste. And really, how can I possibly give my critique on Venkat who came up with the brilliant “I was expecting an inquisition by a panel of Spocks” to refer to the judging nature of the LW populace!
[1] To judge; not necessarily to find fault.
Hm, well, I’m not asking LW to criticize them—I’m just inquiring about what LW thinks about their ideas (since LW is the only community whose input I would really consider). Right now, I’m pretty much an uncritical fanboy of them, but I’d still like to update my beliefs with some discussion (of course I’ll always respect them a lot)
That’s quite an extreme degree of self-censorship! Especially with respect to Rao, who’s practically a public figure: he’s written a book, runs a blog where people can comment on his ideas, and hosts a mailing list.
I think there’s a big difference between discussing a specific idea and discussing the person and everything he writes from Quora posts to the blog, the mailing list and the book. I’d happily voice my opinion about Tempo, or about Slightly Evil, the Gervais Principle or any of his other ideas. They’re different works though and they don’t deserve to be clumped together in one “what do I think about Rao” kind of post. When somebody is as prolific as Venkat inevitably some of the stuff is going to be good and some of the stuff is going to be not so good.
Maybe you can give a nuanced opinion about a person and his work in a couple of paragraphs. I sure can’t. It’s just incredibly difficult to do a person’s accomplishments justice with some kind of quick summary. If I don’t think I can stand behind what I write a couple of years down the road I shouldn’t write it in the first place.
Also, this is not self-censorship. We all have (controversial) opinions about a variety of topics and when we voice those opinions we send a signal. Some of these signals we don’t wish to send and consequently, on some matters we choose not to voice our opinion. It’s just a mundane cost-benefit analysis; nothing more.
I disagree. A decision being the result of a cost-benefit analysis doesn’t preclude it from being an act of self-censorship. (Otherwise it would follow that a perfect utility maximizer could never self-censor, which I see as a reductio.) As I see it, avoiding controversial opinions to prevent controversy or an off-putting signal is usually self-censorship, albeit self-censorship that’s often benign & helpful.
Agreed. But I see all of them as legitimate things to discuss.
Seems alright to me; nothing’s stopping a commenter from using this thread to give their opinions about individual works. Besides, people who’ve read one part of Rao’s work are likely to have read others, so it makes some sense to try soliciting their thoughts in one go.
That’s a high standard. A good standard, but a far higher one than is normal (both on Less Wrong and in general). People on LW post shorthand judgements of others’ work quite often (here’s a recent example) without being 100% rigorous about it but I don’t think it lowers LW’s level of discussion appreciably. Someone saying “I’m not a fan of this author, here are a couple of reasons why” or “I really liked this aspect of so-and-so’s work on such-and-such” can be very useful even if it’s not a careful, judicious balancing of a writer’s pros & cons.
[Edited to fix brackets.]