I am fairly sure, though I haven’t been able to refind a link, that there’s some solid evidence that autolysis isn’t nearly that quick or severe.
We can watch neural cells dying underneath a microscope. The destruction looks pretty complete. Structure is dissolved in what are essentially digestive enzymes.
If you read Alcor’s FAQ for Scientists, you’ll notice that they are the most careful to point out that there is considerable doubt about the possibility to ever revive anyone whose gone several hours without vitrification. Maybe this is because they want more “stand-by” revenue. Maybe its because they know they know there is no basis for speculation; by our current understanding of things its a serious problem. There are those who hope it is not a fatal problem. There are those who hope there is a heaven, too.
What has to be done ASAP is not vitrification it is cooling. Just dropping the body in a bath of icewater will prevent that kind of damage for days; and Suspended Animation or Alcor—either of which will be waiting right next to your bedside as fast as they can fly—have much more effective ways of cooling than a bath of icewater, and they’re working on better ways yet. They also use a portable thumper to perform CPR while cooling (their special waterproof version has been patented by cryo orgs for marketing for other medical uses), just to make sure your blood stays oxygenated while you’re in the metabolic danger zone, and I believe they pump you full of other protectants as well (using interosseous access, which is much faster than intravenous).
Local cryonics groups in faraway lands may not have thumpers and complicated blood medications and interosseous access, but they can at least dump you in a bathtub of ice water and perform CPR for a few minutes.
Also, with a bit more life insurance you can get the air ambulance option at Suspended Animation.
What has to be done ASAP is not vitrification it is cooling.
You are right—what I should be saying is not that I’m concerned about the likelihood of hours without vitrification but that I am concerned about hours of autolysis occurring.
Yes, well, I think it’s safe to say that quite a few cryonics patients and orgs are concerned about that. There are complex technologies to prevent it, but also a simple one, widely available if you have any local cryonics group. It’s called crushed ice, and a lot of stores will sell it to you.
What we need are studies of damage from vitrification when the operation was not done immediately after death, but after few hours as it usually happens.
Please write up these objections into a blog post or article somewhere. From the searches I’ve been doing, you only have to clear a very low bar to write the most clearly argued and well informed criticism of cryonics in the world.
I am fairly sure, though I haven’t been able to refind a link, that there’s some solid evidence that autolysis isn’t nearly that quick or severe.
We can watch neural cells dying underneath a microscope. The destruction looks pretty complete. Structure is dissolved in what are essentially digestive enzymes.
If you read Alcor’s FAQ for Scientists, you’ll notice that they are the most careful to point out that there is considerable doubt about the possibility to ever revive anyone whose gone several hours without vitrification. Maybe this is because they want more “stand-by” revenue. Maybe its because they know they know there is no basis for speculation; by our current understanding of things its a serious problem. There are those who hope it is not a fatal problem. There are those who hope there is a heaven, too.
What has to be done ASAP is not vitrification it is cooling. Just dropping the body in a bath of icewater will prevent that kind of damage for days; and Suspended Animation or Alcor—either of which will be waiting right next to your bedside as fast as they can fly—have much more effective ways of cooling than a bath of icewater, and they’re working on better ways yet. They also use a portable thumper to perform CPR while cooling (their special waterproof version has been patented by cryo orgs for marketing for other medical uses), just to make sure your blood stays oxygenated while you’re in the metabolic danger zone, and I believe they pump you full of other protectants as well (using interosseous access, which is much faster than intravenous).
Local cryonics groups in faraway lands may not have thumpers and complicated blood medications and interosseous access, but they can at least dump you in a bathtub of ice water and perform CPR for a few minutes.
Also, with a bit more life insurance you can get the air ambulance option at Suspended Animation.
You are right—what I should be saying is not that I’m concerned about the likelihood of hours without vitrification but that I am concerned about hours of autolysis occurring.
Yes, well, I think it’s safe to say that quite a few cryonics patients and orgs are concerned about that. There are complex technologies to prevent it, but also a simple one, widely available if you have any local cryonics group. It’s called crushed ice, and a lot of stores will sell it to you.
What we need are studies of damage from vitrification when the operation was not done immediately after death, but after few hours as it usually happens.
Please write up these objections into a blog post or article somewhere. From the searches I’ve been doing, you only have to clear a very low bar to write the most clearly argued and well informed criticism of cryonics in the world.