I still say that there is a difference between what you and WrongBot are doing, even if you’re successfully shooting down my attempts to articulate it. I might need a few more tries to be able to correctly articulate that intuition.
My worry was that this would revise my values: after gaining that specific knowledge, my brain would excessively value replying to the reports over working on my current project.
These are not the same types of values. You were worried about your values about priorities changing, while under time pressure. WrongBot is worried about his moral values changing about he treats certain groups of people.
But in the “twiddled” version, I don’t know when the safe conditions will occur . . .
True, but there wasn’t the same magnitude or type of uncertainty, right? You knew that you would probably be able to read your reports after your deadline...? All predictions about the future are uncertain, but not all types of uncertainty are created equal.
I would be interested to hear your opinion of a little thought experiment. What if I was a creationist, and you recommend me a book debunking creationism. I say that I won’t read it because it might change my values, at least not only the conditions are safe for me. If I say that I can’t read it this week because I have a deadline, but maybe next week, you’ll probably give me a pass. But what if I put off reading it indefinitely? Is that rational?
It seems that since we recognize that rationalists are human, we can and should give them a pass on scrutinizing certain thoughts or investigating certain ideas when they are under time pressure or emotional pressure in the short term, like in your example. But how long can one dodge inquiry in a certain area before one’s rationalist creds become suspect?
My worry was that this would revise my values: after gaining that specific knowledge, my brain would excessively value replying to the reports over working on my current project.
These are not the same types of values. You were worried about your values about priorities changing, while under time pressure. WrongBot is worried about his moral values changing about he treats certain groups of people.
I’m having trouble seeing this distinction. What if I had a moral obligation to do as well as possible on my current project, because people were depending on me, say? My concern would be that, if I read the reports, I would feel a pull to act immorally. I might even rationalize away the immorality under the influence of this pull. In effect, I would act according to different moral values. Would that make the situation more analogous in your view, or would something still be missing?
I’m getting the sense that the problem with my example is that it has nothing to do with political correctness. Is it key for you that WrongBot wants to keep information out of his/her brain because of political correctness specifically?
But in the “twiddled” version, I don’t know when the safe conditions will occur . . .
True, but there wasn’t the same magnitude or type of uncertainty, right? You knew that you would probably be able to read your reports after your deadline...? All predictions about the future are uncertain, but not all types of uncertainty are created equal.
I called it a “twiddled” version because I was thinking of the uncertainty as a continuous parameter that I could set to a wide spectrum of values. In the actual situation, the dial was pegged at “almost complete certainty”. But I can imagine situations where I’m very uncertain. It looks like part of your problem with this is that such a quantitative change amounts to a qualitative change in your view. Is that right?
I would be interested to hear your opinion of a little thought experiment. What if I was a creationist, and you recommend me a book debunking creationism. I say that I won’t read it because it might change my values, at least not only the conditions are safe for me. If I say that I can’t read it this week because I have a deadline, but maybe next week, you’ll probably give me a pass. But what if I put off reading it indefinitely? Is that rational?
I take it that your concern would be that losing creationism would change your moral values in a dangerous way. Whether you are being rational then depends on what “put off reading it indefinitely” means. I would say that you are being rational to avoid the book for now only if you are making a good-faith effort to determine rationally the conditions under which it would be safe to read the book, with the intention of reading the book once you’ve found sufficiently safe conditions.
Part of the problem I’m having with your example is my perception of the magnitude of the gap between what you are talking about and WrongBot’s examples. While they share certain similarities it appears roughly equivalent to a discussion about losing your entire life savings which you are comparing to the time you dropped a dime down the back of the sofa.
Sometimes a sufficiently large difference of magnitude can be treated for most purposes as a difference in kind.
Part of the problem I’m having with your example is my perception of the magnitude of the gap between what you are talking about and WrongBot’s examples.
What is the axis along which the gap lies? Is it the degree of uncertainty about when it will be safe to learn the dangerous knowledge?
Degree of uncertainty and magnitude of duration of the length of time before it will be ‘safe’.
Degree of effort involved in avoidance (temporarily holding off on reading a specific email vs. actively avoiding certain knowledge and filtering all information for a long and unspecified duration).
Severity of consequences (delayed or somewhat sub-standard performance on a near term project deadline vs. fundamental change or damage to your core values)
Scope of filtering (avoiding detailed contents of a specific email with a known and clearly delineated area of significance vs. general avoidance of whole areas of knowledge where you may not even have a good idea of what knowledge you may be missing out on).
Mental resources emphasized (short term attentional resources vs. deeply considered core beliefs and modes of thought and high level knowledge and understanding).
In my perception, the gap is less about certainty and more about timescale; I’d draw a line between “in a normal human lifetime” and “when I have a better brain” as the two qualitatively different timescales that you’re talking about.
I still say that there is a difference between what you and WrongBot are doing, even if you’re successfully shooting down my attempts to articulate it. I might need a few more tries to be able to correctly articulate that intuition.
These are not the same types of values. You were worried about your values about priorities changing, while under time pressure. WrongBot is worried about his moral values changing about he treats certain groups of people.
True, but there wasn’t the same magnitude or type of uncertainty, right? You knew that you would probably be able to read your reports after your deadline...? All predictions about the future are uncertain, but not all types of uncertainty are created equal.
I would be interested to hear your opinion of a little thought experiment. What if I was a creationist, and you recommend me a book debunking creationism. I say that I won’t read it because it might change my values, at least not only the conditions are safe for me. If I say that I can’t read it this week because I have a deadline, but maybe next week, you’ll probably give me a pass. But what if I put off reading it indefinitely? Is that rational?
It seems that since we recognize that rationalists are human, we can and should give them a pass on scrutinizing certain thoughts or investigating certain ideas when they are under time pressure or emotional pressure in the short term, like in your example. But how long can one dodge inquiry in a certain area before one’s rationalist creds become suspect?
I’m having trouble seeing this distinction. What if I had a moral obligation to do as well as possible on my current project, because people were depending on me, say? My concern would be that, if I read the reports, I would feel a pull to act immorally. I might even rationalize away the immorality under the influence of this pull. In effect, I would act according to different moral values. Would that make the situation more analogous in your view, or would something still be missing?
I’m getting the sense that the problem with my example is that it has nothing to do with political correctness. Is it key for you that WrongBot wants to keep information out of his/her brain because of political correctness specifically?
I called it a “twiddled” version because I was thinking of the uncertainty as a continuous parameter that I could set to a wide spectrum of values. In the actual situation, the dial was pegged at “almost complete certainty”. But I can imagine situations where I’m very uncertain. It looks like part of your problem with this is that such a quantitative change amounts to a qualitative change in your view. Is that right?
I take it that your concern would be that losing creationism would change your moral values in a dangerous way. Whether you are being rational then depends on what “put off reading it indefinitely” means. I would say that you are being rational to avoid the book for now only if you are making a good-faith effort to determine rationally the conditions under which it would be safe to read the book, with the intention of reading the book once you’ve found sufficiently safe conditions.
Part of the problem I’m having with your example is my perception of the magnitude of the gap between what you are talking about and WrongBot’s examples. While they share certain similarities it appears roughly equivalent to a discussion about losing your entire life savings which you are comparing to the time you dropped a dime down the back of the sofa.
Sometimes a sufficiently large difference of magnitude can be treated for most purposes as a difference in kind.
Quantity has a quality all of its own.
What is the axis along which the gap lies? Is it the degree of uncertainty about when it will be safe to learn the dangerous knowledge?
Multiple axes:
Degree of uncertainty and magnitude of duration of the length of time before it will be ‘safe’.
Degree of effort involved in avoidance (temporarily holding off on reading a specific email vs. actively avoiding certain knowledge and filtering all information for a long and unspecified duration).
Severity of consequences (delayed or somewhat sub-standard performance on a near term project deadline vs. fundamental change or damage to your core values)
Scope of filtering (avoiding detailed contents of a specific email with a known and clearly delineated area of significance vs. general avoidance of whole areas of knowledge where you may not even have a good idea of what knowledge you may be missing out on).
Mental resources emphasized (short term attentional resources vs. deeply considered core beliefs and modes of thought and high level knowledge and understanding).
That’s part of it, and also how far into the future one thinks that might occur.
In my perception, the gap is less about certainty and more about timescale; I’d draw a line between “in a normal human lifetime” and “when I have a better brain” as the two qualitatively different timescales that you’re talking about.