I am a transhumanist and a futurist, but I’ve been depressive recently while thinking about the far future. This rarely happens. I found myself being scared of getting smarter due to a Singularity-like event. I was also scared by the arbitrariness of our goals and values. Simply put, I don’t fit in to the present. I’m theorizing about intelligence, reading scientific papers, and participating very modestly in the brony fandom. I’ve made it my life’s goal to make major steps towards safe AGI. Living to the point past that, I see aimlessness. Besides my one creative technological skill, I am mainly a consumer. That leads to my concern of getting smarter.
I mostly read stories, take in stories, participate in stories. Stories are my life. I want to be able to appreciate the stories we have now in the future. And I’m concerned that upgrading to transfuturist levels of intelligence will make the types of stories we have now incredibly banal and obvious, for many good reasons. Predictable, boring, and worthless.
It’s not really a question, but I’d appreciate any other perspectives. Please?
At least you probably won’t feel too bad about present-day stories no longer feeling compelling at a point where they no longer feel compelling. Maybe think about the horror of a three-year-old you at the idea of no longer liking their favorite picture-book, and your current feelings about you no longer finding the same picture-book very interesting. That’s not quite enough though, people also probably won’t feel bad about being wireheaded once they have been wireheaded, and they don’t feel bad about being in a coma while they’re in a coma...
A more positive thought might be that if your abilities to perceive patterns are much improved, you might find many more interesting things going on in actual reality, instead of needing to have massively simplified stylized narratives laboriously distilled from the huge messy soup of actual stuff.
This is also a thing that happens with people right now, just from getting more used to the story patterns. Many older people probably find themselves feeling increasingly distant from the sort of storytelling culture we have now where many popular stories are made to be understandable and compelling to teenagers, like most all of science fiction and fantasy. You could try looking into what people significantly older than you who liked the sort of stories you like at your age think about stories now.
I like to think that advanced intelligences would have modules for enjoying different sorts of art, so that you could enjoy children’s literature as though you were a child or 21st century fiction as though you were a reasonably bright native of that century, and then enjoy the memory with your full mind.
As bronies, we already enjoy things that are pretty danged obvious. I mean, how many episodes could you not call the end of, at the 14 minute mark? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t good things about them. Obvious does not immediately lead to banal. If you’re paying attention, you can predict nearly note for note the last quarter or so of lots of sonatas (hint: repeats used to be really popular). That doesn’t make them banal any more than listening to them a second time does, or listening to them after you’ve already familiarized yourself with them.
Another question—are you reading Friendship is Optimal and derived works? That’s not Eutopia. CelestAI is a cosmic screwup.
Litmus test: do you find children’s stories banal and obvious?
For me, they don’t envoke the same awe and emotional connection that a novel for adults can, but I still find them pleasant, charming, and often immersive.
I’ve heard quite often (mainly in the writers community) that people’s brain reasons primarily with stories. We need story to understand and make sense of things (they say). It’s not a surprise than that you define yourself as a consumer/producers of stories. To me, I think it’s perfectly fine. I would love to contribute meaningfully to AGI understanding, but most probably I won’t. I’ve long time ago made peace with that, and while this doesn’t prevent me from trying, I’m also content to live my life consuming (and sometimes producing) stories, while trying to stay alive and have sex. Anyway, if it’s intelligence augmentation that worries you, think that with a more intelligent brain you can appreciate more complex stories...
And I’m concerned that upgrading to transfuturist levels of intelligence will make the types of stories we have now incredibly banal and obvious, for many good reasons. Predictable, boring, and worthless.
This seems unlikely (albeit possible, I guess). I enjoy some children’s stories, and while they’re predictable, they’re neither boring nor worthless.
I’ve also been having a few very similar worries. In relation to them, I’ve come up with plenty of half-formed ideas for solutions or potential ways around it, like the possible need to downgrade to current levels of intelligence temporarily to be able to enjoy current-era stories.
Here’s the thing though: will there be much point in engaging in such activities? Perhaps we go through some kind of massive intelligence boost, and our current modes of fiction suddenly seem so outdated, simplistic and as you say, banal. Perhaps they will only seem that way compared to however sophisticated way we enjoy ourselves in the future? Perhaps we might have access to completely different media, with a difference in complexity comparable to that between cave-paintings and a motion picture or video game? Perhaps, like Mr Mind says, with a more intelligent brain we’ll be able to appreciate more complex stories? Maybe it won’t matter that the stories enjoy now won’t seem so great, because our equivalent stories will be so great?
How much value do you place on still valuing current-era stories post-intelligence boost? I’m reminded of that Ghandi not wanting to swallow a pill that would make him into a person who doesn’t mind committing murders.
I can only speculate. I feel like some of these kinds of concerns are touched upon at times in the fun theory sequence (possibly an understatement, you could consider the fun theory sequence to be a more generalised response to exactly these kinds of worries), among other bits and pieces.
Most characters in stories suffer from the same problems current humans do. Why not write far better endings (and interludes for that matter) for all the stories? I think you are correct that we will not find the tragic tale of Romeo and Juliet anything but appalling in 100 years (“They died??!?”). So we’ll probably fix them in ways that are quite satisfying to transhumans, just like we plan to fix the rest of reality. And there will almost certainly be new, better, amazing stories.
Have you read the Fun Theory sequence? That deals directly with the question of what to do with potentially boundless time and space and intelligence.
I am a transhumanist and a futurist, but I’ve been depressive recently while thinking about the far future. This rarely happens. I found myself being scared of getting smarter due to a Singularity-like event. I was also scared by the arbitrariness of our goals and values. Simply put, I don’t fit in to the present. I’m theorizing about intelligence, reading scientific papers, and participating very modestly in the brony fandom. I’ve made it my life’s goal to make major steps towards safe AGI. Living to the point past that, I see aimlessness. Besides my one creative technological skill, I am mainly a consumer. That leads to my concern of getting smarter.
I mostly read stories, take in stories, participate in stories. Stories are my life. I want to be able to appreciate the stories we have now in the future. And I’m concerned that upgrading to transfuturist levels of intelligence will make the types of stories we have now incredibly banal and obvious, for many good reasons. Predictable, boring, and worthless.
It’s not really a question, but I’d appreciate any other perspectives. Please?
Having a meaningful life is a very strong human value, and if FAI is done right, it will have something to keep your life meaningful post-singularity.
If people get smarter, they’ll write smarter stories.
At least you probably won’t feel too bad about present-day stories no longer feeling compelling at a point where they no longer feel compelling. Maybe think about the horror of a three-year-old you at the idea of no longer liking their favorite picture-book, and your current feelings about you no longer finding the same picture-book very interesting. That’s not quite enough though, people also probably won’t feel bad about being wireheaded once they have been wireheaded, and they don’t feel bad about being in a coma while they’re in a coma...
A more positive thought might be that if your abilities to perceive patterns are much improved, you might find many more interesting things going on in actual reality, instead of needing to have massively simplified stylized narratives laboriously distilled from the huge messy soup of actual stuff.
This is also a thing that happens with people right now, just from getting more used to the story patterns. Many older people probably find themselves feeling increasingly distant from the sort of storytelling culture we have now where many popular stories are made to be understandable and compelling to teenagers, like most all of science fiction and fantasy. You could try looking into what people significantly older than you who liked the sort of stories you like at your age think about stories now.
I like to think that advanced intelligences would have modules for enjoying different sorts of art, so that you could enjoy children’s literature as though you were a child or 21st century fiction as though you were a reasonably bright native of that century, and then enjoy the memory with your full mind.
As bronies, we already enjoy things that are pretty danged obvious. I mean, how many episodes could you not call the end of, at the 14 minute mark? That doesn’t mean that there aren’t good things about them. Obvious does not immediately lead to banal. If you’re paying attention, you can predict nearly note for note the last quarter or so of lots of sonatas (hint: repeats used to be really popular). That doesn’t make them banal any more than listening to them a second time does, or listening to them after you’ve already familiarized yourself with them.
Another question—are you reading Friendship is Optimal and derived works? That’s not Eutopia. CelestAI is a cosmic screwup.
Litmus test: do you find children’s stories banal and obvious?
For me, they don’t envoke the same awe and emotional connection that a novel for adults can, but I still find them pleasant, charming, and often immersive.
I’ve heard quite often (mainly in the writers community) that people’s brain reasons primarily with stories. We need story to understand and make sense of things (they say). It’s not a surprise than that you define yourself as a consumer/producers of stories.
To me, I think it’s perfectly fine. I would love to contribute meaningfully to AGI understanding, but most probably I won’t. I’ve long time ago made peace with that, and while this doesn’t prevent me from trying, I’m also content to live my life consuming (and sometimes producing) stories, while trying to stay alive and have sex.
Anyway, if it’s intelligence augmentation that worries you, think that with a more intelligent brain you can appreciate more complex stories...
This may ease your anxiety regarding intelligence enhancement and enjoyment. perhaps not. I still recommend reading it.
This seems unlikely (albeit possible, I guess). I enjoy some children’s stories, and while they’re predictable, they’re neither boring nor worthless.
I’ve also been having a few very similar worries. In relation to them, I’ve come up with plenty of half-formed ideas for solutions or potential ways around it, like the possible need to downgrade to current levels of intelligence temporarily to be able to enjoy current-era stories.
Here’s the thing though: will there be much point in engaging in such activities? Perhaps we go through some kind of massive intelligence boost, and our current modes of fiction suddenly seem so outdated, simplistic and as you say, banal. Perhaps they will only seem that way compared to however sophisticated way we enjoy ourselves in the future? Perhaps we might have access to completely different media, with a difference in complexity comparable to that between cave-paintings and a motion picture or video game? Perhaps, like Mr Mind says, with a more intelligent brain we’ll be able to appreciate more complex stories? Maybe it won’t matter that the stories enjoy now won’t seem so great, because our equivalent stories will be so great?
How much value do you place on still valuing current-era stories post-intelligence boost? I’m reminded of that Ghandi not wanting to swallow a pill that would make him into a person who doesn’t mind committing murders.
I can only speculate. I feel like some of these kinds of concerns are touched upon at times in the fun theory sequence (possibly an understatement, you could consider the fun theory sequence to be a more generalised response to exactly these kinds of worries), among other bits and pieces.
Most characters in stories suffer from the same problems current humans do. Why not write far better endings (and interludes for that matter) for all the stories? I think you are correct that we will not find the tragic tale of Romeo and Juliet anything but appalling in 100 years (“They died??!?”). So we’ll probably fix them in ways that are quite satisfying to transhumans, just like we plan to fix the rest of reality. And there will almost certainly be new, better, amazing stories.
Have you read the Fun Theory sequence? That deals directly with the question of what to do with potentially boundless time and space and intelligence.
Won’t it all be fine as long as there are some intelligence-amplified authors hanging around after the singularity too?