You seem to imply that under your most favorable social arrangements, there would be some constraints relative to a complete sexual laissez-faire (even one with the usual caveats about consenting adults etc.). But how would these be enforced?
What about reductions of freedom that don’t stem from any legal compulsion or violent threats, but merely from social norms enforced via status and reputation (and, obviously, their consequences on people’s future willingness to maintain and establish various sorts of private relations with you)?
One question answers the other. I don’t imagine, by the way, that polyamory will ever be the norm, nor do I think it should. The social arrangement I favor most involves each individual freely choosing whichever option they prefer; I imagine that under such circumstances no one style of relationship would predominate.
I disagree. Polyamory is as has often been said something we do anyway. Just less honestly.
Female hypergamy and male vanity (everyone likes to think of themselves as high value) most likley ensure that this [poliamory] will at least for some time be the dominant arrangement in Western society.
I know the Roissyisphere isn’t very popular here but the spirit of this particular saying of his rings true:
“To the average woman five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta.”
Polyamory requires honesty, by definition. Ethical non-monogamy is different from non-consensual non-monogamy. This discussion can’t go anywhere if you’re redefining words to mean what you want them to mean. If you want to talk about the category of practices that includes everything but monogamy, use “non-monogamy”. If you want to talk about dishonest non-monogamy, use “non-consensual non-monogamy” or “cheating.”
How do you classify a relationship between >2 people, where the people involved have an agreement not to date other people, and where one of the members does so anyway?
The appropriate label to use is the one that best describes what the people in the relationship have agreed to, implicitly or explicitly. Cheating doesn’t turn a monogamous relationship into something else, it’s just a violation of the relationship’s rules. Ditto with a polyamorous one.
And this does happen, by the way, and when it does, it’s usually really awful. Monogamous cheating is bad enough, but when you’re in a triad (or a quad, or...) you do at least as much damage to several people. More, probably, considering that there’s usually more trust and clear negotiation involved.
A supposedly monogamous relationship where one or both members cheats is non-consensually open and non-consensually non-monogamous. A supposedly closed polyamorous relationship where one or more members cheats is also non-consensually open, but I don’t see how it makes sense to consider it non-polyamorous.
I don’t see how it makes sense to consider it non-polyamorous.
Well, it’s non-monogamous, but it doesn’t meet the ideals of polyamory. I guess it depends on your definition. I think it makes the most sense to consider it an unsuccessful attempt at a polyamorous relationship.
One question answers the other. I don’t imagine, by the way, that polyamory will ever be the norm, nor do I think it should. The social arrangement I favor most involves each individual freely choosing whichever option they prefer; I imagine that under such circumstances no one style of relationship would predominate.
I disagree. Polyamory is as has often been said something we do anyway. Just less honestly.
Female hypergamy and male vanity (everyone likes to think of themselves as high value) most likley ensure that this [poliamory] will at least for some time be the dominant arrangement in Western society.
I know the Roissyisphere isn’t very popular here but the spirit of this particular saying of his rings true: “To the average woman five minutes of alpha is worth five years of beta.”
Polyamory requires honesty, by definition. Ethical non-monogamy is different from non-consensual non-monogamy. This discussion can’t go anywhere if you’re redefining words to mean what you want them to mean. If you want to talk about the category of practices that includes everything but monogamy, use “non-monogamy”. If you want to talk about dishonest non-monogamy, use “non-consensual non-monogamy” or “cheating.”
How do you classify a relationship between >2 people, where the people involved have an agreement not to date other people, and where one of the members does so anyway?
Cheating. Possibly lying. But also polyamory.
The appropriate label to use is the one that best describes what the people in the relationship have agreed to, implicitly or explicitly. Cheating doesn’t turn a monogamous relationship into something else, it’s just a violation of the relationship’s rules. Ditto with a polyamorous one.
And this does happen, by the way, and when it does, it’s usually really awful. Monogamous cheating is bad enough, but when you’re in a triad (or a quad, or...) you do at least as much damage to several people. More, probably, considering that there’s usually more trust and clear negotiation involved.
A multi-way relationship where one of the people is cheating. I guess you could call it a non-consensual open multi-way relationship.
You did catch the context?
A supposedly monogamous relationship where one or both members cheats is non-consensually open and non-consensually non-monogamous. A supposedly closed polyamorous relationship where one or more members cheats is also non-consensually open, but I don’t see how it makes sense to consider it non-polyamorous.
Well, it’s non-monogamous, but it doesn’t meet the ideals of polyamory. I guess it depends on your definition. I think it makes the most sense to consider it an unsuccessful attempt at a polyamorous relationship.