That not the only relevant question. Let’s say someone named Rothschild runs for a congress primary. There are people from whom that’s enough to choose to vote against that person. Those people aren’t necessarily politically on the right.
I’m not sure that “Rothschild” is the best example here since the name is far more evocative of extreme wealth than of religion. But let’s suppose that someone named “Shapiro” or “Cohen” is running for Congress. Would that automatically disqualify him for people on the Left? For the most part, I would say “clearly not.” If he supports the traditional Leftist positions, it won’t be a problem.
Even when I personally wouldn’t call it anti-semitism there are plenty of people on the left who want to boycot Israel economically after the example of South Africa. On the other hand someone like Mencius Moldbug is quite all right with Israel.
And a desire to boycott Israel is indeed consistent with modern progressive politics, agreed?
I’m not sure that “Rothschild” is the best example here since the name is far more evocative of extreme wealth than of religion.
Are you really saying that judging someone that way isn’t a form of antisemitism?
On of Hitlers main talking points against Jewish was that the big evil Jewish bankers control the world economy and have to be fought. People like the Rothschilds. That talking point was one of the essential elements of antisemitism.
I had the experience talking with someone about Jeffrey Sachs and that person immeditaly going for an ad hominem based on the name. There a point where it’s simply clear that one’s confronted with antisemitism.
“I’m no racist, but...”
And a desire to boycott Israel is indeed consistent with modern progressive politics, agreed?
Yes, people like Naomi Klein are progressives in good standing.
Are you really saying that judging someone that way isn’t a form of antisemitism?
Don’t let your culturally trained pattern-matching go astray. Judging people for being extremely wealthy is not per se antisemitic. Only judging people for being extremely wealthy jews (while being okay with extremely wealthy non-jews) is.
If I know that someone’s lastname is Rothshield I don’t even know that the person is wealthy. I’m effectively judging them by actions of their ancestors.
Yes, but that is entirely orthogonal to the question of whether it’s antisemitism. brazil’s point was merely that “Rothschild” brings to mind excessive riches more saliently than it brings to mind Judaism, and so any judgment of that may not be genuinely antisemitic.
70 years ago it would have brought up rich Jewish bankers with political power.
Things happened and you don’t speak about rich powerful Jewish bankers. Now it might not bring up the same image anymore, does that mean it was antisemitic 70 years ago but isn’t antisemitic today?
If it brought up rich Jewish bankers 70 years ago and only brings up rich bankers now, it’s obviously less antisemitic now than it used to be. But in any case, you cannot use the name “Rothschild” to make the point that a Jewish person would have a disadvantage in an election—you could at most make the point that someone whose name brings to mind rich Jewis people might have a disadvantage. I think this is more properly construed as the basis of brazil’s original objection.
Being Akashi Jewish is a racial category that has something to do with who your ancestors happen to be. If someone is named Rothshield that suggest at least partly Akashi Jewish ancestry.
People who descriminate against Jewish people often don’t care whether the person is practicing Judaism but more about their ancestery.
Being Akashi Jewish is a racial category that has something to do with who your ancestors happen to be. If someone is named Rothshield that suggest at least partly Akashi Jewish ancestry.
Sure, and if someone is named Rothschild, it also suggests that they come from wealth. It doesn’t mean they are wealthy and it doesn’t mean they are Jewish.
By the way, I think the word you are looking for is “Ashkenazi” not “Akashi.”
Are you really saying that judging someone that way isn’t a form of antisemitism?
Not necessarily. Let me ask you this: Imagine your hypothetical left-winger who won’t vote for a Rothschild. Do you think that person would vote for a “Rockefeller”? My guess is he probably wouldn’t, but even if he would, he would probably invent some rationalization for it so he could pretend to himself and his peers that he is not an anti-Semite.
By the way, I do agree that much of the time, criticism of “Bankers” or “Wall Street Bankers” or “Elites who Control the Media” etc. is tinged with anti-Semitism, even when it comes from the Left.
I’m not sure that “Rothschild” is the best example here since the name is far more evocative of extreme wealth than of religion. But let’s suppose that someone named “Shapiro” or “Cohen” is running for Congress. Would that automatically disqualify him for people on the Left? For the most part, I would say “clearly not.” If he supports the traditional Leftist positions, it won’t be a problem.
And a desire to boycott Israel is indeed consistent with modern progressive politics, agreed?
Are you really saying that judging someone that way isn’t a form of antisemitism?
On of Hitlers main talking points against Jewish was that the big evil Jewish bankers control the world economy and have to be fought. People like the Rothschilds. That talking point was one of the essential elements of antisemitism.
I had the experience talking with someone about Jeffrey Sachs and that person immeditaly going for an ad hominem based on the name. There a point where it’s simply clear that one’s confronted with antisemitism.
“I’m no racist, but...”
Yes, people like Naomi Klein are progressives in good standing.
Don’t let your culturally trained pattern-matching go astray. Judging people for being extremely wealthy is not per se antisemitic. Only judging people for being extremely wealthy jews (while being okay with extremely wealthy non-jews) is.
If I know that someone’s lastname is Rothshield I don’t even know that the person is wealthy. I’m effectively judging them by actions of their ancestors.
Yes, but that is entirely orthogonal to the question of whether it’s antisemitism. brazil’s point was merely that “Rothschild” brings to mind excessive riches more saliently than it brings to mind Judaism, and so any judgment of that may not be genuinely antisemitic.
70 years ago it would have brought up rich Jewish bankers with political power.
Things happened and you don’t speak about rich powerful Jewish bankers. Now it might not bring up the same image anymore, does that mean it was antisemitic 70 years ago but isn’t antisemitic today?
If it brought up rich Jewish bankers 70 years ago and only brings up rich bankers now, it’s obviously less antisemitic now than it used to be. But in any case, you cannot use the name “Rothschild” to make the point that a Jewish person would have a disadvantage in an election—you could at most make the point that someone whose name brings to mind rich Jewis people might have a disadvantage. I think this is more properly construed as the basis of brazil’s original objection.
You also don’t know if they are Jewish.
Being Akashi Jewish is a racial category that has something to do with who your ancestors happen to be. If someone is named Rothshield that suggest at least partly Akashi Jewish ancestry.
People who descriminate against Jewish people often don’t care whether the person is practicing Judaism but more about their ancestery.
Sure, and if someone is named Rothschild, it also suggests that they come from wealth. It doesn’t mean they are wealthy and it doesn’t mean they are Jewish.
By the way, I think the word you are looking for is “Ashkenazi” not “Akashi.”
Not necessarily. Let me ask you this: Imagine your hypothetical left-winger who won’t vote for a Rothschild. Do you think that person would vote for a “Rockefeller”? My guess is he probably wouldn’t, but even if he would, he would probably invent some rationalization for it so he could pretend to himself and his peers that he is not an anti-Semite.
By the way, I do agree that much of the time, criticism of “Bankers” or “Wall Street Bankers” or “Elites who Control the Media” etc. is tinged with anti-Semitism, even when it comes from the Left.