I may be misremembering, but if I recall correctly with Einstein’s theory of special relativity it was at the time considered finally possible to accurately and precisely predict the movements of bodies in our universe. While Newton proved what laws the universe is bound by, he never figured out how these rules operated beyond what was plainly observable. When Einstein’s theory of special relativity became accepted, that ball X caused the effect of ball Y’s movement became mathematically provable at such a level of precision that Hume’s insight—what causes the effect of ball Y’s movement is not empirically discernible—became sound no longer.
I admit the above is a bit vague, and perhaps dangerously so. If it doesn’t clear up your question let me know, and I’ll check over my notes when I get the chance.
I may be misremembering, but if I recall correctly with Einstein’s theory of special relativity it finally became possible to accurately and precisely predict the movements of bodies in our universe.
This is incorrect. MHD is correct about the right response to “all is uncertain,” which is “right, but there are shades of uncertainty from 0 to 1, and we can measure them.”
Newton’s theory of gravitation is a very close approximation to Einstein’s general relativity, but it is measurably different in some cases (precession of Mercury, gravitational lensing, and more). Einstein showed that gravity can be neatly explained by the curvature of spacetime, that mass distorts the “fabric” of space (I use quotes because that’s not the mathematical term for it, but it conjures a nice image that isn’t too far off of reality). Objects move in straight lines along curved spacetime, but to us it looks like they go in loops around stars and such.
Special relativity has to do with the relation of space and time for objects sufficiently far away from each other that gravity doesn’t affect them. Causality is enforced by this theory since nothing can go faster than light, and so all spacetime intervals we run into are time-like (That’s just a fancy way of saying we only see wot’s in our light cone).
(I think it was general relativity, not special relativity.) I can see where whoever said that is coming from, but I’m not sure I 100% agree. (I will elaborate on this when I have more time.)
(I think it was general relativity, not special relativity.)
Special relativity was formalised around ten years earlier than general relativity (around 1905), which better fits in with my mental timeline of the fin de siecle.
I can see where whoever said that is coming from[...]
Whoever asserted that Einstein’s theory had resolved Hume’s insight? or whoever said that, at the time, the educated generally considered Einstein’s theory to have resolved Hume’s insight? If the former, I think it was more a widespread idea that the majority of the educated shared, rather than one person’s assertion.
Regardless of to whom you were referring, I look forward to your elaboration!
Special relativity was formalised around ten years earlier than general relativity (around 1905), which better fits in with my mental timeline of the fin de siecle.
I can’t see what special relativity would have to do with Hume. It just extended the principle of relativity, which was already introduced by Galileo, to the propagation of light at a finite speed, though with all kinds of counter-intuitive results such as the relativity of simultaneity. By itself, it still doesn’t predict (say) gravitation. (It does predict conservation of energy, momentum and angular momentum if you assume space-time is homogeneous and isotropic and use Noether’s theorem, but so does Galilean relativity for that matter.)
On the other hand, general relativity, from a small number of very simple assumptions, predicts quite a lot of things (pretty much any non-quantum phenomenon which had observed back then except electromagnetism). Indeed Einstein said he was completely certain his theory would prove to be true before it was even tested. EDIT: you actually need more data than I remembered to get to GR: see http://lesswrong.com/lw/jo/einsteins_arrogance/757x
(Wow, now that I’m trying to explain that, I realize that the difference between SR and GR in these respects are nowhere near as important as I was thinking.)
Anyway, there’s still no logical reason why those very simple assumptions have to be true; you still need experience to tell you they are.
Thank you for the review! It makes a lot in the two wikipedia articles on special and general relativity easier to digest.
Can you give me some pointers? I can’t recall ever hearing about that before.
I intend on thoroughly going over my notes this weekend so I can separate historical fact from interpretation, which are currently grouped together in my memory. I’ll be able to do your response justice then.
I’m not an expert in philosophy, but if we are talking physics, relativity, special or general, did not do anything of the sort you claim: “Einstein’s theory of special relativity it was at the time considered finally possible to accurately and precisely predict the movements of bodies in our universe.” If anything, the Newtonian mechanics had a better claim at determinism, at least until 19th century, when it became clear than electromagnetism comes with a host of paradoxes, not cleared up until both SR and QM were developed. Of course, this immediately caused more trouble than it solved, and I recall no serious physicist who claimed that it was ” finally possible to accurately and precisely predict the movements of bodies”, given that QM is inherently non-deterministic, SR showing that Newtonian gravity is incomplete. and GR was not shown to be well-posed until much later.
Thank you for your input. I also do not know of any serious physicist who asserted that causality had been finally and definitively solved by SR; from what I was taught, it was as I said more a widespread idea that the majority of the educated shared, rather than one person’s assertion.
Indeed, Hume’s insight is more of a philosophical problem than a mathematical one. Hume showed that empiricism alone could never determine causality. Einstein’s STR showed that causality can be determined empirically when aided by maths, a tool of the empiricist. It can be argued that STR does not definitively prove causality itself (perhaps very rightly so—again, I am not aware), however the salient point is that STR gave rise to the conception that Hume’s insight had finally been resolved. To be clear, in order to resolve Hume’s insight one only needed to demonstrate that through empiricism it is possible to establish causality.
What?
I may be misremembering, but if I recall correctly with Einstein’s theory of special relativity it was at the time considered finally possible to accurately and precisely predict the movements of bodies in our universe. While Newton proved what laws the universe is bound by, he never figured out how these rules operated beyond what was plainly observable. When Einstein’s theory of special relativity became accepted, that ball X caused the effect of ball Y’s movement became mathematically provable at such a level of precision that Hume’s insight—what causes the effect of ball Y’s movement is not empirically discernible—became sound no longer.
I admit the above is a bit vague, and perhaps dangerously so. If it doesn’t clear up your question let me know, and I’ll check over my notes when I get the chance.
This is incorrect. MHD is correct about the right response to “all is uncertain,” which is “right, but there are shades of uncertainty from 0 to 1, and we can measure them.”
Thank you, both of you. I changed the text to reflect only STR’s historical significance in regard to Hume’s insight.
Newton’s theory of gravitation is a very close approximation to Einstein’s general relativity, but it is measurably different in some cases (precession of Mercury, gravitational lensing, and more). Einstein showed that gravity can be neatly explained by the curvature of spacetime, that mass distorts the “fabric” of space (I use quotes because that’s not the mathematical term for it, but it conjures a nice image that isn’t too far off of reality). Objects move in straight lines along curved spacetime, but to us it looks like they go in loops around stars and such.
Special relativity has to do with the relation of space and time for objects sufficiently far away from each other that gravity doesn’t affect them. Causality is enforced by this theory since nothing can go faster than light, and so all spacetime intervals we run into are time-like (That’s just a fancy way of saying we only see wot’s in our light cone).
(I think it was general relativity, not special relativity.) I can see where whoever said that is coming from, but I’m not sure I 100% agree. (I will elaborate on this when I have more time.)
Special relativity was formalised around ten years earlier than general relativity (around 1905), which better fits in with my mental timeline of the fin de siecle.
Whoever asserted that Einstein’s theory had resolved Hume’s insight? or whoever said that, at the time, the educated generally considered Einstein’s theory to have resolved Hume’s insight? If the former, I think it was more a widespread idea that the majority of the educated shared, rather than one person’s assertion.
Regardless of to whom you were referring, I look forward to your elaboration!
I can’t see what special relativity would have to do with Hume. It just extended the principle of relativity, which was already introduced by Galileo, to the propagation of light at a finite speed, though with all kinds of counter-intuitive results such as the relativity of simultaneity. By itself, it still doesn’t predict (say) gravitation. (It does predict conservation of energy, momentum and angular momentum if you assume space-time is homogeneous and isotropic and use Noether’s theorem, but so does Galilean relativity for that matter.)
On the other hand, general relativity, from a small number of very simple assumptions, predicts quite a lot of things (pretty much any non-quantum phenomenon which had observed back then except electromagnetism). Indeed Einstein said he was completely certain his theory would prove to be true before it was even tested. EDIT: you actually need more data than I remembered to get to GR: see http://lesswrong.com/lw/jo/einsteins_arrogance/757x
(Wow, now that I’m trying to explain that, I realize that the difference between SR and GR in these respects are nowhere near as important as I was thinking.)
Anyway, there’s still no logical reason why those very simple assumptions have to be true; you still need experience to tell you they are.
The comments to http://lesswrong.com/lw/jo/einsteins_arrogance/ go into more detail about this.
Can you give me some pointers? I can’t recall ever hearing about that before.
Thank you for the review! It makes a lot in the two wikipedia articles on special and general relativity easier to digest.
I intend on thoroughly going over my notes this weekend so I can separate historical fact from interpretation, which are currently grouped together in my memory. I’ll be able to do your response justice then.
I’m not an expert in philosophy, but if we are talking physics, relativity, special or general, did not do anything of the sort you claim: “Einstein’s theory of special relativity it was at the time considered finally possible to accurately and precisely predict the movements of bodies in our universe.” If anything, the Newtonian mechanics had a better claim at determinism, at least until 19th century, when it became clear than electromagnetism comes with a host of paradoxes, not cleared up until both SR and QM were developed. Of course, this immediately caused more trouble than it solved, and I recall no serious physicist who claimed that it was ” finally possible to accurately and precisely predict the movements of bodies”, given that QM is inherently non-deterministic, SR showing that Newtonian gravity is incomplete. and GR was not shown to be well-posed until much later.
Thank you for your input. I also do not know of any serious physicist who asserted that causality had been finally and definitively solved by SR; from what I was taught, it was as I said more a widespread idea that the majority of the educated shared, rather than one person’s assertion.
Indeed, Hume’s insight is more of a philosophical problem than a mathematical one. Hume showed that empiricism alone could never determine causality. Einstein’s STR showed that causality can be determined empirically when aided by maths, a tool of the empiricist. It can be argued that STR does not definitively prove causality itself (perhaps very rightly so—again, I am not aware), however the salient point is that STR gave rise to the conception that Hume’s insight had finally been resolved. To be clear, in order to resolve Hume’s insight one only needed to demonstrate that through empiricism it is possible to establish causality.