Once we have deemed that wanting to pursue pleasure and happiness are wireheading-like impulses, why stop ourselves from saying that wanting to impact the world is a wireheading-like impulse?
Is there a way you can rephrase this question without using the word “wirehead”? When discussing meditation, the word “wirehead” can have two very different meanings. Usually, “wirehead” refers to the gross failure mode of heavy meditation where a practitioner amnesthesizes him/herself into a potato. Kaj_Sotala has used the word “wirehead” to refer to a subtle specific consequence of taṇhā.
Why isn’t a desire to avoid death craving?
A desire to avoid death is craving. (In fact, death is one of the Four Sights.) The actions of postponing death are not craving. Only the desire to avoid death is.
You clearly speak as if going to a dentist when you have a tooth ache is the right thing to do, but why?
Because you have a toothache and your teeth will rot if you don’t go to a dentist.
Once you distance your ‘self’ from pain, why not distance yourself from your rotting teeth?
Penetrating taṇhā is the opposite of distancing. It’s about accepting the world right now as it is. If your teeth are rotting right this instant then you should accept that your teeth are rotting right this instant. Such is the Litany of Tarski.
If my teeth are rotting,
then I desire to believe my teeth are rotting;
If my teeth are not rotting,
then I desire to believe my teeth are not rotting;
Let me not become attached to beliefs I may not want.
The thing you distance yourself from isn’t the pain, it’s your self. Kaj_Sotala’s post is about taṇhā, one of the Three Characteristics of Existence. Another Characteristic of Existence is anattā or non-self. I hope this becomes clearer once Kaj_Sotala gets to anattā in this series.
All my intuitions about how to act are based on this flawed sense of self. And from what you are outlining, I don’t see how any intuition about the right way to act can possibly remain once we lose this flawed sense of self.
It is possible to do something without craving it. For example, consider relaxing on a tropical beach and reaching over to drink a mango smoothie. Now, consider the instant you are mid-sip, sucking through the straw while the flavor washes over your mouth. In that instant, you act without craving.
The same goes for when you are engrossed in fun conversation with close friends and family.
There’s a general discomfort I have with this series of posts that I’m not able to fully articulate, but the above questions seem related.
Typically, when we reason about what actions we should or should not perform, at the base of that reasoning is something of the form “X is intrinsically bad.” Now, I’d always associated “X is intrinsically bad” with some sort of statement like “X induces a mental state that feels wrong.” Do I have access to this line of reasoning as a meditator?
Concretely, if someone asked me why I would go to a dentist if my teeth were rotting, I would have to reply that I do so because I care about my health or maybe because unhealthiness is intrinsically bad. And if they asked me why I care about my health, I cannot answer except to point to the fact the that it does not feel good to me, in my head. But from what I understand, the enlightened cannot say this, because they feel that everything is good to them, in their heads.
In fact, the later part of your response makes me feel that the enlightened cannot provide any reasons for their actions at all.
Concretely, if someone asked me why I would go to a dentist if my teeth were rotting, I would have to reply that I do so because I care about my health or maybe because unhealthiness is intrinsically bad. And if they asked me why I care about my health, I cannot answer except to point to the fact the that it does not feel good to me, in my head. But from what I understand, the enlightened cannot say this, because they feel that everything is good to them, in their heads.
Even to the enlightened, experiences with positive valence still feel like they have positive valence; experiences with negative valence still feel like they have negative valence. (Well, there are accounts which disagree with this and claim that perpetual positive experience is possible, but I am skeptical of those.) One can still prefer states with positive valence, and say that “they just feel good to me”—one is just okay with the possibility of not always getting them.
I realize that this is hard to imagine if you haven’t actually experienced it. An analogy that’s kind of close might be if you were offered a choice between two foods that you were almost indifferent over, but just slightly preferred option B. Given the choice, you ask to have B, but if you were given A instead, you wouldn’t feel any less happy for it. At least, you could let go of your disappointment very quickly.
Is there a way you can rephrase this question without using the word “wirehead”? When discussing meditation, the word “wirehead” can have two very different meanings. Usually, “wirehead” refers to the gross failure mode of heavy meditation where a practitioner amnesthesizes him/herself into a potato. Kaj_Sotala has used the word “wirehead” to refer to a subtle specific consequence of taṇhā.
A desire to avoid death is craving. (In fact, death is one of the Four Sights.) The actions of postponing death are not craving. Only the desire to avoid death is.
Because you have a toothache and your teeth will rot if you don’t go to a dentist.
Penetrating taṇhā is the opposite of distancing. It’s about accepting the world right now as it is. If your teeth are rotting right this instant then you should accept that your teeth are rotting right this instant. Such is the Litany of Tarski.
The thing you distance yourself from isn’t the pain, it’s your self. Kaj_Sotala’s post is about taṇhā, one of the Three Characteristics of Existence. Another Characteristic of Existence is anattā or non-self. I hope this becomes clearer once Kaj_Sotala gets to anattā in this series.
It is possible to do something without craving it. For example, consider relaxing on a tropical beach and reaching over to drink a mango smoothie. Now, consider the instant you are mid-sip, sucking through the straw while the flavor washes over your mouth. In that instant, you act without craving.
The same goes for when you are engrossed in fun conversation with close friends and family.
Good!
Typically, when we reason about what actions we should or should not perform, at the base of that reasoning is something of the form “X is intrinsically bad.” Now, I’d always associated “X is intrinsically bad” with some sort of statement like “X induces a mental state that feels wrong.” Do I have access to this line of reasoning as a meditator?
Concretely, if someone asked me why I would go to a dentist if my teeth were rotting, I would have to reply that I do so because I care about my health or maybe because unhealthiness is intrinsically bad. And if they asked me why I care about my health, I cannot answer except to point to the fact the that it does not feel good to me, in my head. But from what I understand, the enlightened cannot say this, because they feel that everything is good to them, in their heads.
In fact, the later part of your response makes me feel that the enlightened cannot provide any reasons for their actions at all.
Even to the enlightened, experiences with positive valence still feel like they have positive valence; experiences with negative valence still feel like they have negative valence. (Well, there are accounts which disagree with this and claim that perpetual positive experience is possible, but I am skeptical of those.) One can still prefer states with positive valence, and say that “they just feel good to me”—one is just okay with the possibility of not always getting them.
I realize that this is hard to imagine if you haven’t actually experienced it. An analogy that’s kind of close might be if you were offered a choice between two foods that you were almost indifferent over, but just slightly preferred option B. Given the choice, you ask to have B, but if you were given A instead, you wouldn’t feel any less happy for it. At least, you could let go of your disappointment very quickly.