I’m not entirely certain what your “reciprocal utilitarianism” means. Do you value how people actually respond to your acts or just that you are giving them “good” consequences?
Utilitarian theory is the sociological and philosophical theory that all people desire and strive for whatever they perceive to lead to their happiness.
Reciprocal utilitarianism is a theory of social interaction in which you assist others in achieving what they perceive to lead to happiness in the hopes that they may assist you in the same in the near future.
My main focus when interacting with anyone is to ascertain whether they are generally counter-reciprocal or preemptively-reciprocal, honest, trustworthy, reliable and congenial.
In most situations, if these people don’t meet these qualities to my satisfaction, I still try to maintain a higher but minimum level in parallel to them to maintain good standing “just in case”.
If a person does reciprocate and meet these desirable qualities to my satisfaction, I try to meet or exceed their level of positive return in praise, loyalty or material wealth.
So in answer to your question: Yes, I value how people respond to my actions. In fact, the continuous building of good relations and reciprocity [or the disassociation of myself with undesirable and unreliable people] is the cornerstone of my social life; Not because I believe it is unselfish, but because living in a selfish but ‘ethical’ manner has worked for me.
[Note: Again, I apologize for the ranting style of this post. I believe that we may have misinterpreted the contents of each other’s original posts, but I am enjoying this tangent.]
Not to worry. When I started around these folks, I was mistaking their use of “altruism” for what we call “altruism” in ethics, which is a different animal entirely. That’s one reason we try not to argue too hard about mere definitions.
Utilitarian theory is the sociological and philosophical theory that all people desire and strive for whatever they perceive to lead to their happiness.
Who defines it this way? It sounds like you’re talking about psychological hedonism, or something like it.
My personal view on utilitarianism is that most people in our culture view it as valid in their broader context of beliefs and pursue it accordingly. Unfortunately, what people often perceive as utilitarian may not actually lead to their satisfaction.
Hence my writing that through the act of assisting people in achieving what they perceive as most likely leading to their happiness, I can usually extract some level of reciprocity in the future for my good intentions and efforts.
I don’t see any of this as being hedonistic and neither do I endorse hedonism. My personal suspicion is that the exercise and understanding of rationality in all personal undertakings can assist a person in obtaining sustained satisfaction; As well as the further understanding that sustained satisfaction as one desires it may never come, but one can maintain some level of contentment knowing that they have struggled towards some greater goal in the course of their life. Rationality, from what I have observed and experience, tends to foster a level of self-control in a person that runs counter to hedonism.
I suppose at this point, I should let it be known that my new interest in rationalism comes from my background in psychology and philosophy—if it isn’t already obvious from my writing.
The sources you cited don’t seem to support your definition, but rather use the sort more well known to ethicists. The one on Wikipedia does a good enough job:
Utilitarianism is the idea that the moral worth of an action is determined solely by its contribution to overall utility: that is, its contribution to happiness or pleasure as summed among all people
That is, it doesn’t suggest what people actually do strive for, nor does it suggest that people are after their own happiness. Rather, it’s an ethical theory for which the following are true:
An action is right if it leads to a good outcome
An outcome is good if it maximizes overall net utility
Of course, there are variations on Utilitarianism and different ideas of what ‘utility’ means (Jeremy Bentham believed more pleasure / less pain summed it up). But they’re all variants on this theory.
The theory that each person only ever pursues what leads to their own happiness is commonly called ‘psychological hedonism’, and is of questionable worth since it’s usually presented in a nonfalsifiable fashion.
I did not mean to imply that people generally seek their own happiness over the greater good for all. Nor did I mean to imply that there was a dichotomy between the two at all.
I keep alluding to people pursuing what they “perceive” as “most likely” bringing happiness. I tend to see people’s perceptions as to what can make them happy as being inspired by their social and cultural influences—Family, friends, lovers, associates, religion, economic and political views, social upbringing, etc.
But I do see what you’re saying—and I apologize. I should have elaborated further that my personal views on the role of utilitarianism in society partially deviate from traditional views of the abstract definition of utilitarianism. My primary usage is derived from Nietzsche’s criticisms of utilitarianism and championing of the concept of the “Will to Power” as well as my views on the individual being influenced by their participation in a socio-cultural system and the cycle of interaction therein.
I will just call my methods of interaction with others, “reciprocal mutualism” from now on.
EDIT: I was mistaken in my use of “utilitarianism”. I really meant to convey the sociobological concept of “reciprocal altruism”. I’d like to extend further apologies for this mistake.
I’m not entirely certain what your “reciprocal utilitarianism” means. Do you value how people actually respond to your acts or just that you are giving them “good” consequences?
Hello,
Utilitarian theory is the sociological and philosophical theory that all people desire and strive for whatever they perceive to lead to their happiness.
Reciprocal utilitarianism is a theory of social interaction in which you assist others in achieving what they perceive to lead to happiness in the hopes that they may assist you in the same in the near future.
My main focus when interacting with anyone is to ascertain whether they are generally counter-reciprocal or preemptively-reciprocal, honest, trustworthy, reliable and congenial.
In most situations, if these people don’t meet these qualities to my satisfaction, I still try to maintain a higher but minimum level in parallel to them to maintain good standing “just in case”.
If a person does reciprocate and meet these desirable qualities to my satisfaction, I try to meet or exceed their level of positive return in praise, loyalty or material wealth.
So in answer to your question: Yes, I value how people respond to my actions. In fact, the continuous building of good relations and reciprocity [or the disassociation of myself with undesirable and unreliable people] is the cornerstone of my social life; Not because I believe it is unselfish, but because living in a selfish but ‘ethical’ manner has worked for me.
[Note: Again, I apologize for the ranting style of this post. I believe that we may have misinterpreted the contents of each other’s original posts, but I am enjoying this tangent.]
You mean reciprocal altruism. “Sociobiology” was a dead give-away.
Hello,
Yes! That’s the concept! Thank you!
If possible, I would like to apologize for misusing the concept of “utilitarianism” for what should have been “reciprocal altruism”.
For the sake of the discussion, please assume that my original comments have been amended to reflect this.
Not to worry. When I started around these folks, I was mistaking their use of “altruism” for what we call “altruism” in ethics, which is a different animal entirely. That’s one reason we try not to argue too hard about mere definitions.
Hello,
Aye, thank you.
It is a comfort to me to know I can have my misconceptions knocked out of me in a gentle and civil way here.
I think I’ll enjoy learning from this community.
Who defines it this way? It sounds like you’re talking about psychological hedonism, or something like it.
Hello,
As far as I know, the definition of utilitarianism that I typed is in wide acceptance by the philosophical and psychological community at large.
References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism
http://www.utilitarianism.com/
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/utilitarianism
My personal view on utilitarianism is that most people in our culture view it as valid in their broader context of beliefs and pursue it accordingly. Unfortunately, what people often perceive as utilitarian may not actually lead to their satisfaction.
Hence my writing that through the act of assisting people in achieving what they perceive as most likely leading to their happiness, I can usually extract some level of reciprocity in the future for my good intentions and efforts.
I don’t see any of this as being hedonistic and neither do I endorse hedonism. My personal suspicion is that the exercise and understanding of rationality in all personal undertakings can assist a person in obtaining sustained satisfaction; As well as the further understanding that sustained satisfaction as one desires it may never come, but one can maintain some level of contentment knowing that they have struggled towards some greater goal in the course of their life. Rationality, from what I have observed and experience, tends to foster a level of self-control in a person that runs counter to hedonism.
I suppose at this point, I should let it be known that my new interest in rationalism comes from my background in psychology and philosophy—if it isn’t already obvious from my writing.
The sources you cited don’t seem to support your definition, but rather use the sort more well known to ethicists. The one on Wikipedia does a good enough job:
That is, it doesn’t suggest what people actually do strive for, nor does it suggest that people are after their own happiness. Rather, it’s an ethical theory for which the following are true:
An action is right if it leads to a good outcome
An outcome is good if it maximizes overall net utility
Of course, there are variations on Utilitarianism and different ideas of what ‘utility’ means (Jeremy Bentham believed more pleasure / less pain summed it up). But they’re all variants on this theory.
The theory that each person only ever pursues what leads to their own happiness is commonly called ‘psychological hedonism’, and is of questionable worth since it’s usually presented in a nonfalsifiable fashion.
Hello,
I did not mean to imply that people generally seek their own happiness over the greater good for all. Nor did I mean to imply that there was a dichotomy between the two at all.
I keep alluding to people pursuing what they “perceive” as “most likely” bringing happiness. I tend to see people’s perceptions as to what can make them happy as being inspired by their social and cultural influences—Family, friends, lovers, associates, religion, economic and political views, social upbringing, etc.
But I do see what you’re saying—and I apologize. I should have elaborated further that my personal views on the role of utilitarianism in society partially deviate from traditional views of the abstract definition of utilitarianism. My primary usage is derived from Nietzsche’s criticisms of utilitarianism and championing of the concept of the “Will to Power” as well as my views on the individual being influenced by their participation in a socio-cultural system and the cycle of interaction therein.
I will just call my methods of interaction with others, “reciprocal mutualism” from now on.
EDIT: I was mistaken in my use of “utilitarianism”. I really meant to convey the sociobological concept of “reciprocal altruism”. I’d like to extend further apologies for this mistake.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/134/sayeth_the_girl/ynt