Oh, so the idea is that if you’re really clueless, then you’re not lying to your partner? You just feel compelled to bring them to fancy dinner parties but never spend one-on-one time with them and you don’t know why? Sorry, I’m still having trouble understanding. =/
I wasn’t quite going for a moral stance that punishes deliberate liars, but I was going for one where the people cooperate to maximize … combined utility, I guess? If both people are happy, it’s better than an arrangement where one person is making the other unhappy. Which sort of requires honesty, because if you don’t tell the other person your real utility function, they won’t be able to help with it. And if you act according to a different utility function than you tell them about, that will reflect in your actions and they’ll be able to tell something’s up.
maximize … combined utility, I guess? If both people are happy, it’s better than an arrangement where one person is making the other unhappy.
I agree that both being happy is better than one making the other unhappy, but it’s important to note that
The two are not mutually exclusive: I could reduce your happiness, but be unable to overcome your naturally sunny disposition.
One happy one unhappy might have a higher “combined utility” than both happy, if one is a sadistic utility monster.
if you don’t tell the other person your real utility function, they won’t be able to help with it.
No-one’s ever told me their utility function, but I still think I’ve helped them. When I hold a door open for someone, I help them, but they didn’t tell me any coefficients.
if you act according to a different utility function than you tell them about, that will reflect in your actions and they’ll be able to tell something’s up.
If people could always tell something was up there’d be no unknowing trophy spouses and hence no problem.
That just works because most people appreciate you opening doors. If you met someone that hated having their door opened, you’d stop! right? And you wouldn’t really know they hate it unless they tell you honestly! Or maybe you’d be able to tell because they cringe and grimace every time you do it, which is what I mean by actions reflecting happiness. Maybe they wouldn’t even know why they cringe and grimace, but you could experiment and tell it was door-related.
Yes there are scenarios where you need to ask in order to help people. But there are also scenarios where you don’t, and in the comment I was replying to you suggested that one had to ask to help.
Yeah, I think I meant that communication happens somehow, either explicitly or through cringing-like behavior. But you’re right, I didn’t combine utility properly in my earlier comment. I wanted a way to penalize unhappiness more. Like if something makes me reeeally happy and the other person a bit unhappy, it should be up to the other person to decide if I get to do it. In the sense that unhappiness is unpleasantness and not quite the same as absence of happiness. Arr, complicated.
Oh, so the idea is that if you’re really clueless, then you’re not lying to your partner? You just feel compelled to bring them to fancy dinner parties but never spend one-on-one time with them and you don’t know why? Sorry, I’m still having trouble understanding. =/
I wasn’t quite going for a moral stance that punishes deliberate liars, but I was going for one where the people cooperate to maximize … combined utility, I guess? If both people are happy, it’s better than an arrangement where one person is making the other unhappy. Which sort of requires honesty, because if you don’t tell the other person your real utility function, they won’t be able to help with it. And if you act according to a different utility function than you tell them about, that will reflect in your actions and they’ll be able to tell something’s up.
I agree that both being happy is better than one making the other unhappy, but it’s important to note that
The two are not mutually exclusive: I could reduce your happiness, but be unable to overcome your naturally sunny disposition.
One happy one unhappy might have a higher “combined utility” than both happy, if one is a sadistic utility monster.
No-one’s ever told me their utility function, but I still think I’ve helped them. When I hold a door open for someone, I help them, but they didn’t tell me any coefficients.
If people could always tell something was up there’d be no unknowing trophy spouses and hence no problem.
That just works because most people appreciate you opening doors. If you met someone that hated having their door opened, you’d stop! right? And you wouldn’t really know they hate it unless they tell you honestly! Or maybe you’d be able to tell because they cringe and grimace every time you do it, which is what I mean by actions reflecting happiness. Maybe they wouldn’t even know why they cringe and grimace, but you could experiment and tell it was door-related.
Yes there are scenarios where you need to ask in order to help people. But there are also scenarios where you don’t, and in the comment I was replying to you suggested that one had to ask to help.
Yeah, I think I meant that communication happens somehow, either explicitly or through cringing-like behavior. But you’re right, I didn’t combine utility properly in my earlier comment. I wanted a way to penalize unhappiness more. Like if something makes me reeeally happy and the other person a bit unhappy, it should be up to the other person to decide if I get to do it. In the sense that unhappiness is unpleasantness and not quite the same as absence of happiness. Arr, complicated.