LW’s problem is the decline in quality, so the fix should be quality-oriented, not quantity-oriented.
I think it went the other way: demands for quality, rigor, and fully developed ideas made posting here unsatisfying (compared to the alternatives) for a lot of previously good posters.
Well, I was one of those “previously good posters” (top 10 for a long time) and I left because of the decline in quality. I don’t remember exactly, but I think Eliezer also claimed to leave because of nastiness in the comments, not because people were asking him to be more rigorous.
The limiting factor of having an active community on LW is people’s desire to hang out here. I strongly believe that desire depends mostly on the average quality of posts they read, and doesn’t depend on their freedom to post. Eliezer had a fandom even in the OB days, when no one except him could post at all. Only Scott can post on SSC today, yet each of his posts gathers hundreds of comments. I’m just suggesting the same model here.
“Nastiness in the comments” and “people asking him to be more rigorous” aren’t mutually exclusive. I heard a lot of this in person, so I can’t easily provide references, but back when that was all going down I remember a lot of talk from Eliezer and other major contributors about how LW was getting unpleasantly nitpicky.
In Eliezer’s case this probably has something to do with the fastest-gun-in-the-west dynamic, where if you’re known as a public intellectual in some context you’re going to attract a lot of people looking to gain some status by making you look stupid. But I heard similar sentiments from e.g. Louie, and he was never Internet famous like Eliezer was.
A social club version of LW also has to compete with the whole net ;-)
IMO the best contributors on LW (Yvain, Alicorn, Wei...) joined mostly because of the quality of Eliezer’s posts, not because of the people. There were hardly any people back then. I might be misremembering, but I think Yvain started posting when LW was still read-only, by emailing his posts to Eliezer or something.
A social club version of LW also has to compete with the whole net ;-)
Yes, but here it has a pronounced advantage. Out of all more or less active forums known to me, LW has the least idiots. That’s a huge plus. Besides, I like weirdness.
because of the quality of Eliezer’s posts, not because of the people. There were hardly any people back then.
Yes, and at that point EY was “people” they wanted to talk to.
FWIW my feeling is much the same as Lumifer’s. However, people like me and Lumifer may not be the ones whose feelings matter here—if all the best people have abandoned LW because the quality is low, people who are still active participants probably (1) aren’t the best people, (2) aren’t producing the high quality of stuff that LW needs to attract and keep the best people, and (3) in any case aren’t the ones LW is having most trouble retaining.
(Counterargument: “first do no harm”. Countercounterargument, kinda: if LW is made read-only, who cares whether anyone is or isn’t interested in it? it will make no difference.)
I think it went the other way: demands for quality, rigor, and fully developed ideas made posting here unsatisfying (compared to the alternatives) for a lot of previously good posters.
Well, I was one of those “previously good posters” (top 10 for a long time) and I left because of the decline in quality. I don’t remember exactly, but I think Eliezer also claimed to leave because of nastiness in the comments, not because people were asking him to be more rigorous.
The limiting factor of having an active community on LW is people’s desire to hang out here. I strongly believe that desire depends mostly on the average quality of posts they read, and doesn’t depend on their freedom to post. Eliezer had a fandom even in the OB days, when no one except him could post at all. Only Scott can post on SSC today, yet each of his posts gathers hundreds of comments. I’m just suggesting the same model here.
“Nastiness in the comments” and “people asking him to be more rigorous” aren’t mutually exclusive. I heard a lot of this in person, so I can’t easily provide references, but back when that was all going down I remember a lot of talk from Eliezer and other major contributors about how LW was getting unpleasantly nitpicky.
In Eliezer’s case this probably has something to do with the fastest-gun-in-the-west dynamic, where if you’re known as a public intellectual in some context you’re going to attract a lot of people looking to gain some status by making you look stupid. But I heard similar sentiments from e.g. Louie, and he was never Internet famous like Eliezer was.
Truth.
A datapoint: I am entirely uninterested in a read-only LW. On this basis it has to compete with the whole ’net and, well, I don’t think it will win.
From my point of view “that desire” depends mostly on the quality of people you can talk to. You don’t need a social website to read blog posts.
A social club version of LW also has to compete with the whole net ;-)
IMO the best contributors on LW (Yvain, Alicorn, Wei...) joined mostly because of the quality of Eliezer’s posts, not because of the people. There were hardly any people back then. I might be misremembering, but I think Yvain started posting when LW was still read-only, by emailing his posts to Eliezer or something.
Yes, but here it has a pronounced advantage. Out of all more or less active forums known to me, LW has the least idiots. That’s a huge plus. Besides, I like weirdness.
Yes, and at that point EY was “people” they wanted to talk to.
FWIW my feeling is much the same as Lumifer’s. However, people like me and Lumifer may not be the ones whose feelings matter here—if all the best people have abandoned LW because the quality is low, people who are still active participants probably (1) aren’t the best people, (2) aren’t producing the high quality of stuff that LW needs to attract and keep the best people, and (3) in any case aren’t the ones LW is having most trouble retaining.
(Counterargument: “first do no harm”. Countercounterargument, kinda: if LW is made read-only, who cares whether anyone is or isn’t interested in it? it will make no difference.)