I still have no idea whether on your account perceiving some system as comprised of four things requires some ontologically distinct noncomputational something-or-other in the same way that perceiving a system as red does.
Aha! Only now do I understand exactly what you were asking.
Recap: I complain that colors, such as redness, exist in reality, but not in physics as we describe it now, not even in the physics of the brain. So I just postulate that somewhere in the brain are entities, “manifolds of qualia”, which will have a naturalistic, mathematical description as physical degres of freedom, but which in their full ontological reality are actually red.
So great, I’ve “saved the phenomenon”, my ontology contains true color. But now I need an ontological account of awareness of color. Reality contains awareness of redness, just as much as it contains redness. This is why I started talking about “positing” and “givenness” and the subjective pole of intentionality—because that stuff is needed in order to say what awareness is.
The question about fourness starts out looking simpler than that. If you asked, Does your ontology contain redness, I can say, Yes; it contains qualia-manifolds, and they can be genuinely red. The question about fourness seems quite analogous. If there is a square in your visual field, do I claim that there is a platonic property of fourness inhabiting your manifold of visual qualia?
I believe in the existence of colors, but I am a skeptic about the existence of numbers. You might get away with a metaphysics in which there are no number-entities, just states of processes for counting. I’m not sure; if numbers are real, they might be properties of collections… but I’m a skeptic.
More importantly, my ontology of conscious states gives redness and fourness a different status, which allows me to be agnostic about whether or not there’s a real “essence of fourness” inhabiting the visual sensation of a square. I hypothesize that the entity “redness” (more precisely, a particular shade of redness) is itself part of the entity, “awareness of that shade of redness”; but that “awareness of fourness” does not contain any correspondingly real “fourness”. Analysed, it would be more like “awareness of a group of lines to which the concept of fourness is posited to apply”, or perhaps “awareness of a group of lines together with the awareness that they are being categorized as a foursome by your nervous system”. I’m willing to countenance a functionalist account of number “perception”, but not of color perception.
I hope that this answer, if not intellectually satisfying, at least addresses the question. And now, back to work for a few days…
I believe in the existence of colors, but I am a skeptic about the existence of numbers. You might get away with a metaphysics in which there are no number-entities, just states of processes for counting. I’m not sure; if numbers are real, they might be properties of collections… but I’m a skeptic. [..] I’m willing to countenance a functionalist account of number “perception”, but not of color perception.
OK, cool. That does indeed address the question, thank you.
When you have the time, I would be interested in your thoughts about what sort of evidence might convince you that a functionalist account of number “perception” is inadequate in the same way that (on your account) a functionalist account of color perception is.
Aha! Only now do I understand exactly what you were asking.
Recap: I complain that colors, such as redness, exist in reality, but not in physics as we describe it now, not even in the physics of the brain. So I just postulate that somewhere in the brain are entities, “manifolds of qualia”, which will have a naturalistic, mathematical description as physical degres of freedom, but which in their full ontological reality are actually red.
So great, I’ve “saved the phenomenon”, my ontology contains true color. But now I need an ontological account of awareness of color. Reality contains awareness of redness, just as much as it contains redness. This is why I started talking about “positing” and “givenness” and the subjective pole of intentionality—because that stuff is needed in order to say what awareness is.
The question about fourness starts out looking simpler than that. If you asked, Does your ontology contain redness, I can say, Yes; it contains qualia-manifolds, and they can be genuinely red. The question about fourness seems quite analogous. If there is a square in your visual field, do I claim that there is a platonic property of fourness inhabiting your manifold of visual qualia?
I believe in the existence of colors, but I am a skeptic about the existence of numbers. You might get away with a metaphysics in which there are no number-entities, just states of processes for counting. I’m not sure; if numbers are real, they might be properties of collections… but I’m a skeptic.
More importantly, my ontology of conscious states gives redness and fourness a different status, which allows me to be agnostic about whether or not there’s a real “essence of fourness” inhabiting the visual sensation of a square. I hypothesize that the entity “redness” (more precisely, a particular shade of redness) is itself part of the entity, “awareness of that shade of redness”; but that “awareness of fourness” does not contain any correspondingly real “fourness”. Analysed, it would be more like “awareness of a group of lines to which the concept of fourness is posited to apply”, or perhaps “awareness of a group of lines together with the awareness that they are being categorized as a foursome by your nervous system”. I’m willing to countenance a functionalist account of number “perception”, but not of color perception.
I hope that this answer, if not intellectually satisfying, at least addresses the question. And now, back to work for a few days…
OK, cool. That does indeed address the question, thank you.
When you have the time, I would be interested in your thoughts about what sort of evidence might convince you that a functionalist account of number “perception” is inadequate in the same way that (on your account) a functionalist account of color perception is.