The leader is the ultimate authority—If you’re not allowed to criticize your leader, even if the criticism is true, you’re probably in a cult.
+0.5
Appears somewhat applicable to me from a distance; I’m not sure how obvious it would have been up close, because many types of criticism would likely have been apparently welcome, but there was a large space of things where criticism would not only result in ziz disagreeing, but in anger at the topic coming up. Since many folks [edit: not everyone, that was wrong, but definitely most folks] have topics that will anger them when they come up, I’m not sure how to draw an unambiguous line on this one, but I think there’s something to do with whether the anger is endorsed as a pressured demand to change away from anything that involves questioning.
The group suppresses skepticism—If you’re only allowed to study your organization through approved sources, you’re probably in a cult.
+0.5
Again, appears applicable about the key philosophy. Anyone who doesn’t accept their definitions is evil.
The group delegitimizes former members
+0.5
Not sure there were any former members to delegitimize?
The group is paranoid about the outside world
+1
Obviously becoming a common warning sign given the number of real threats to the world, but overconfidence about them is still a serious warning sign, and they very much were using intense emotional activation about end of the world as a key selling point. Remaining sober when there are risks on the horizon is always key to defeating those risks, so it’s important to not fall into a habit of overactivation—that was how this whole post was started in the first place, after all.
The group relies on shame cycles
+1
YUP. “if you’re not with us, you’re against us”, lots of stuff about having wrong thoughts being shameful.
The leader is above the law
+0.5
Well certainly the literal law, unclear if ziz was in the habit of breaking their own principles internally. weaker match.
The group uses “thought reform” methods—If your serious questions are answered with cliches, you’re probably in a cult.
+1
ohhh boy yep that one applies hard.
The group is elitist—If your group is the solution for all the world’s problems, you’re probably in a cult.
+1
yeppppppp
There is no financial transparency
+0.5
Well I don’t know about that one. Not sure how to know, really.
The group performs secret rites
+1
Seems like it!
overall score on this thrown-together hand-calculated hunch-based metric: 7.5
I think there are better ways to score this, but it given the fact that I can’t say “definitely not” to any of them and can easily say “definitely yes” to half of them, I think it’s a pretty solid “yeah that looks like a cult by this description”.
The leader is the ultimate authority—If you’re not allowed to criticize your leader, even if the criticism is true, you’re probably in a cult.
+0.5
Appears somewhat applicable to me from a distance; I’m not sure how obvious it would have been up close, because many types of criticism would likely have been apparently welcome, but there was a large space of things where criticism would not only result in ziz disagreeing, but in anger at the topic coming up. Since many folks [edit: not everyone, that was wrong, but definitely most folks] have topics that will anger them when they come up, I’m not sure how to draw an unambiguous line on this one, but I think there’s something to do with whether the anger is endorsed as a pressured demand to change away from anything that involves questioning.
The group suppresses skepticism—If you’re only allowed to study your organization through approved sources, you’re probably in a cult.
+0.5
Again, appears applicable about the key philosophy. Anyone who doesn’t accept their definitions is evil.
The group delegitimizes former members
+0.5
Not sure there were any former members to delegitimize?
The group is paranoid about the outside world
+1
Obviously becoming a common warning sign given the number of real threats to the world, but overconfidence about them is still a serious warning sign, and they very much were using intense emotional activation about end of the world as a key selling point. Remaining sober when there are risks on the horizon is always key to defeating those risks, so it’s important to not fall into a habit of overactivation—that was how this whole post was started in the first place, after all.
The group relies on shame cycles
+1
YUP. “if you’re not with us, you’re against us”, lots of stuff about having wrong thoughts being shameful.
The leader is above the law
+0.5
Well certainly the literal law, unclear if ziz was in the habit of breaking their own principles internally. weaker match.
The group uses “thought reform” methods—If your serious questions are answered with cliches, you’re probably in a cult.
+1
ohhh boy yep that one applies hard.
The group is elitist—If your group is the solution for all the world’s problems, you’re probably in a cult.
+1
yeppppppp
There is no financial transparency
+0.5
Well I don’t know about that one. Not sure how to know, really.
The group performs secret rites
+1
Seems like it!
overall score on this thrown-together hand-calculated hunch-based metric: 7.5
I think there are better ways to score this, but it given the fact that I can’t say “definitely not” to any of them and can easily say “definitely yes” to half of them, I think it’s a pretty solid “yeah that looks like a cult by this description”.