Awareness of context and pragmatics can be tacit or explicit, and if you don’t tacitly understand that you need to ask a question, some explicitness might help.
My handy example for communication failure on that sort of thing is a time when I was turned away from a restaurant for not being dressed properly. It took asking the same question a bunch of times to find out that the specific issue was that I was wearing shorts.
My impression is that the person I was asking had trouble imagining that anyone didn’t already know his concept of “dressed properly”.
It’s easier to change your own behavior than it is to change the rest of the world, especially when you’re the one who reads a rationality blog and etc.
It may be negative utility since requesting explicit and clear statements are against social norms and can be taken as implicit accusations of ignorance or incompetence.
Taking things literally and lacking the ability to determine hidden or assumed social meanings is a low status trait, showing that you can be easily tricked, are easy to ridicule in a public fashion without reprisal, etc. Or maybe that’s just me.
The influence of social norms is why it isn’t always a good think to advocate and request clarity in public and normal social interactions. But LessWrong is exactly the place to flout those norms and advocate non-oblique communication. Are we actually disagreeing?
If your statement is that we should cultivate explicit speech on LessWrong, then I would agree that the members of this community already practice that norm, and advocating it here is appropriate.
If your statement is that we, as members of the LessWrong community, should spread the use of explicit speech to the masses, then I would disagree, as training people in even small ways like that takes significantly more time than is worth the effort except with very close friends.
Or did you mean something else? You really should be more explicit ;-P
My statement is that we should observe the need for explicit speech in certain contexts, even though it might be impractical to actively encourage it in the masses.
If your statement is that we, as members of the LessWrong community, should spread the use of explicit speech to the masses, then I would disagree, as training people in even small ways like that takes significantly more time than is worth the effort except with very close friends.
Wouldn’t this statement also apply to promotion of, say, atheism? Advocating atheism on an individual level also “takes significantly more time than is worth the effort except with very close friends.”
Isn’t LessWrong exactly the place to make rational arguments over subjects that many regard as trivial, and arguments that are impractical to pursue with the masses of non-rationalists?
If your statement is that we, as members of the LessWrong community, should spread the use of explicit speech to the masses, then I would disagree, as training people in even small ways like that takes significantly more time than is worth the effort except with very close friends.
Disagreeing about whether something is practical is distinct from disagreeing about whether the world would be a better place if it were done.
I view this entire thread as a masturbatory word argument that was fully answered and explored in the first couple posts, and I let the pattern of votes upset me. Sorry.
My best guess would be that you said, “How am I dressed improperly?” I would also guess that if you had changed the question to something more specific like, “What, my shirt?” then you would have received a more specific answer instead of repeating yourself so many times.
It’s quite possible that more specific questions would have led to a faster answer. My failure of imagination was that I couldn’t believe he didn’t have a clear set of rules in mind.
Awareness of context and pragmatics can be tacit or explicit, and if you don’t tacitly understand that you need to ask a question, some explicitness might help.
My handy example for communication failure on that sort of thing is a time when I was turned away from a restaurant for not being dressed properly. It took asking the same question a bunch of times to find out that the specific issue was that I was wearing shorts.
My impression is that the person I was asking had trouble imagining that anyone didn’t already know his concept of “dressed properly”.
It’s easier to change your own behavior than it is to change the rest of the world, especially when you’re the one who reads a rationality blog and etc.
Anyway, have fun with your analysis.
True, but there is no contradiction between doing so, and also advocating that the world change.
It may be negative utility since requesting explicit and clear statements are against social norms and can be taken as implicit accusations of ignorance or incompetence.
Taking things literally and lacking the ability to determine hidden or assumed social meanings is a low status trait, showing that you can be easily tricked, are easy to ridicule in a public fashion without reprisal, etc. Or maybe that’s just me.
No, I agree that there’s a risk to asking questions in some social circles, and it may not even be obvious which social circles they are.
I believe we are making the world a little with our interactions, and it’s sometimes worth trying to bend the world in our preferred direction.
The influence of social norms is why it isn’t always a good think to advocate and request clarity in public and normal social interactions. But LessWrong is exactly the place to flout those norms and advocate non-oblique communication. Are we actually disagreeing?
If your statement is that we should cultivate explicit speech on LessWrong, then I would agree that the members of this community already practice that norm, and advocating it here is appropriate.
If your statement is that we, as members of the LessWrong community, should spread the use of explicit speech to the masses, then I would disagree, as training people in even small ways like that takes significantly more time than is worth the effort except with very close friends.
Or did you mean something else? You really should be more explicit ;-P
My statement is that we should observe the need for explicit speech in certain contexts, even though it might be impractical to actively encourage it in the masses.
Wouldn’t this statement also apply to promotion of, say, atheism? Advocating atheism on an individual level also “takes significantly more time than is worth the effort except with very close friends.”
Isn’t LessWrong exactly the place to make rational arguments over subjects that many regard as trivial, and arguments that are impractical to pursue with the masses of non-rationalists?
I hope that’s explicit enough ;)
Disagreeing about whether something is practical is distinct from disagreeing about whether the world would be a better place if it were done.
I’m not sure what you think I said.
I view this entire thread as a masturbatory word argument that was fully answered and explored in the first couple posts, and I let the pattern of votes upset me. Sorry.
My best guess would be that you said, “How am I dressed improperly?” I would also guess that if you had changed the question to something more specific like, “What, my shirt?” then you would have received a more specific answer instead of repeating yourself so many times.
It’s quite possible that more specific questions would have led to a faster answer. My failure of imagination was that I couldn’t believe he didn’t have a clear set of rules in mind.