While thinking and engaging with “Awakening from the meaning crisis” I came to a conclusion that a certain kind of danger will keep sticking around. Vervaeke pharases it something to the effect of “perennial problems means that our meaning making machinery will always contain the possibility of self-delusion” and “you can’t get rid of your shadow”. (and my shorthand for it is that “eternal darkness” is a thing) . Digging into all of that might take a lot of time and I found it to feel like there is a conclusion or result coming that just kept going without any resolution at any point.
Groups that in all seriousness make the claims in the “Five hundred years ago” are around. Young earth creationists are like a thing. Similarly for my nordic sensibilities the american apporoach to religion is about as laughable as I imagine the young earth creationist are to the american christians. If one holds that that small group is the representative of the “OG vanilla” christianiaty then one could conclude that christianity has infact been silently phased out by another movement that just reuses the branding. The christians of old not recognising what is called christians now would be correct to identify them as imposters.
The logic might not run the same for all religions. Atleast for Shinto the religion is less about what you believe but more about what you do. For example attitudes to temple sacrifices can be likened to tipping waitresses in restaurants, it is just something you are supposed to do and everybody does. Making the religion be about believing things is more about what the christianity is special as a religion.
I think connected to the motte-and-bailey is when people do the reverse motte and bailey (which I guess is just called strawmanning). In particular while there is an option to go “something doesn’t go believed” → “god works in mysterious ways” i don’t think this is very cannon way and I think as an opponent it would be bad to treat it as the recipe that the system would prescripe. Rather such a person is making an error of religion.
An old joke relevant to some themes here: The is a going to be a flood and a priest is trying to get everybody to safety. There is a truck outside the church but the priest goes “don’t worry, god will protect, go and save others”. Later the water is reaching the steps of the church and a rowboat comes by the church and again the priest goes “don’t worry, god will protect, go and save others”. Later only a tower is peakig amongs the water and a helicopter arrives and still the priest insists “don’t worry, god will protect, go and save others”. The priest drowns and at the gates of heavens asks god “Why did you not protect me?”. God answers: “Well I sent a truck, a rowboat and a helicopter but it didn’t seem to be good enough for you”
The helicopter in this joke is 100% a natural event and 100% an act of god to protect (and its also not particularly subtle). The meaning of “God works in mysterious ways” could be taken to mean along the lines of “God does not work in mundane ways” (which is an anticipation restricting form of it) ie does no direct act but “only indirects”. The obviously foolish “handgesture particular candy automaton wizard” believes mainly condence because all the sane people are not around those circles to ward off the insanity
It is less about the material because the ame thing can be done with “more proper” material. Somebody that is prone to name drop prophets might be nudged to start to name drop Charles Darwin instead. Instead of “believing in the bible” they instead “believe” (as in have a faith commitment to) the dogma collection of “science”. This “scientism” retains the bad method even if it has a more up to date payload. It is a dark art largely because it shoots for antienlightmentment to find expediency in ignorance, stability in blindness and integrity in cowardice.
While I think the american style christianity is home to a large part of the crazy I don’t think it provides a unique kind of crazy. Like that kind of crazy is the same kind of crazy that math cranks are crazy and mathematics will not be a loadstone slowing down humanity as a field.
While thinking and engaging with “Awakening from the meaning crisis” I came to a conclusion that a certain kind of danger will keep sticking around. Vervaeke pharases it something to the effect of “perennial problems means that our meaning making machinery will always contain the possibility of self-delusion” and “you can’t get rid of your shadow”. (and my shorthand for it is that “eternal darkness” is a thing) . Digging into all of that might take a lot of time and I found it to feel like there is a conclusion or result coming that just kept going without any resolution at any point.
Groups that in all seriousness make the claims in the “Five hundred years ago” are around. Young earth creationists are like a thing. Similarly for my nordic sensibilities the american apporoach to religion is about as laughable as I imagine the young earth creationist are to the american christians. If one holds that that small group is the representative of the “OG vanilla” christianiaty then one could conclude that christianity has infact been silently phased out by another movement that just reuses the branding. The christians of old not recognising what is called christians now would be correct to identify them as imposters.
The logic might not run the same for all religions. Atleast for Shinto the religion is less about what you believe but more about what you do. For example attitudes to temple sacrifices can be likened to tipping waitresses in restaurants, it is just something you are supposed to do and everybody does. Making the religion be about believing things is more about what the christianity is special as a religion.
I think connected to the motte-and-bailey is when people do the reverse motte and bailey (which I guess is just called strawmanning). In particular while there is an option to go “something doesn’t go believed” → “god works in mysterious ways” i don’t think this is very cannon way and I think as an opponent it would be bad to treat it as the recipe that the system would prescripe. Rather such a person is making an error of religion.
An old joke relevant to some themes here: The is a going to be a flood and a priest is trying to get everybody to safety. There is a truck outside the church but the priest goes “don’t worry, god will protect, go and save others”. Later the water is reaching the steps of the church and a rowboat comes by the church and again the priest goes “don’t worry, god will protect, go and save others”. Later only a tower is peakig amongs the water and a helicopter arrives and still the priest insists “don’t worry, god will protect, go and save others”. The priest drowns and at the gates of heavens asks god “Why did you not protect me?”. God answers: “Well I sent a truck, a rowboat and a helicopter but it didn’t seem to be good enough for you”
The helicopter in this joke is 100% a natural event and 100% an act of god to protect (and its also not particularly subtle). The meaning of “God works in mysterious ways” could be taken to mean along the lines of “God does not work in mundane ways” (which is an anticipation restricting form of it) ie does no direct act but “only indirects”. The obviously foolish “handgesture particular candy automaton wizard” believes mainly condence because all the sane people are not around those circles to ward off the insanity
It is less about the material because the ame thing can be done with “more proper” material. Somebody that is prone to name drop prophets might be nudged to start to name drop Charles Darwin instead. Instead of “believing in the bible” they instead “believe” (as in have a faith commitment to) the dogma collection of “science”. This “scientism” retains the bad method even if it has a more up to date payload. It is a dark art largely because it shoots for antienlightmentment to find expediency in ignorance, stability in blindness and integrity in cowardice.
While I think the american style christianity is home to a large part of the crazy I don’t think it provides a unique kind of crazy. Like that kind of crazy is the same kind of crazy that math cranks are crazy and mathematics will not be a loadstone slowing down humanity as a field.