I’m a translator between people who speak the same language, but don’t communicate.
People who act mostly based on their instincts and emotions, and those who prefer to ignore or squelch those instincts and emotions[1], tend to have difficulty having meaningful conversations with each other. It’s not uncommon for people from these groups to end up in relationships with each other, or at least working or socializing together.
On the spectrum between the two extremes, I am very close to the center. I have an easier time understanding the people on each side than their counterparts do, it frustrates me when they miscommunicate, and I want to help. This includes general techniques (although there are some good books on that already), explanations of words or actions which don’t appear to make sense, and occasional outright translation of phrases (“When they said X, they meant what you would have called Y”).
Is this problem, or this skill, something of interest to the LW community at large? In the several days I’ve been here it’s come up on comment threads a coupletimes. I have some notes on the subject, and it would be useful for me to get feedback on them; I’d like to some day compile them into a guide written for an audience much like this one. Do you have questions about how to communicate with people who think very much unlike you, or about specific situations that frustrate you? Would you like me to explain what appears to be an arbitrary point of etiquette? Anything else related to the topic which you’d like to see addressed?
In short: “I understand the weird emotional people who are always yelling at you, but I’m also capable of speaking your language. Ask me anything.”
[1] These are both phrased as pejoratively as I could manage, on purpose. Neither extreme is healthy.
One issue I’ve frequently stumbled across is the people who make claims that they have never truly considered. When I ask for more information, point out obvious (to me) counterexamples, or ask them to explain why they believe it, they get defensive and in some cases quite offended. Some don’t want to ever talk about issues because they feel like talking about their beliefs with me is like being subject to some kind of Inquisition. It seems to me that people of this cut believe that to show you care about someone, you should accept anything they say with complete credulity. Have you found good ways to get people to think about what they believe without making them defensive? Do I just have to couch all my responses in fuzzy words? Using weasel words always seemed disingenuous to me, but if I can get someone to actually consider the opposition by saying things like “Idunno, I’m just saying it seems to me, and I might be wrong, that maybe gays are people and deserve all the rights that people get, you know what I’m saying?”
I’ve been on the other side of this, so I definitely understand why people react that way—now let’s see if I understand it well enough to explain it.
For most people, being willing to answer a question or identify a belief is not the same thing as wanting to debate it. If you ask them to tell you one of their beliefs and then immediately try to engage them in justifying it to you, they feel baited and switched into a conflict situation, when they thought they were having a cooperative conversation. You’ve asked them to defend something very personal, and then are acting surprised when they get defensive.
Keep in mind also that most of the time in our culture, when one person challenges another one’s beliefs, it carries the message “your beliefs are wrong.” Even if you don’t state that outright—and even in the probably rare cases when the other person knows you well enough to understand that isn’t your intent—you’re hitting all kinds of emotional buttons which make you seem like an aggressor. This is the result of how the other person is wired, but if you want to be able to have this kind of conversation, it’s in your interest to work with it.
The corollary to the implied “your beliefs are wrong” is “I know better than you” (because that’s how you would tell that they’re wrong). This is an incredibly rude signal to send to—well, anyone, but especially to another adult. Your hackles probably rise too when someone signals that they’re superior to you and you don’t agree; this is the same thing.
The point, then, is not that you need to accept what people you care about say with credulity. It’s that you need to accept it with respect. You do not have any greater value than the person you’re talking to (even if you are smarter and more rational), just like they don’t have any greater value than you (even if they’re richer and more attractive). Even if you really were by some objective measure a better person (which is, as far as I can tell, a useless thing to consider), they don’t think so, and acting like it will get you nowhere.
Possibly one of the hardest parts of this to swallow is that, when you’re choosing words for the purpose of making another person remain comfortable talking to you, whether their beliefs are a good reflection of reality is not actually important. Obviously they think so, and merely contradicting them won’t change that (nor should it). So if you sound like you’re just trying to convince them that they’re wrong, even if that isn’t what you mean to do, they might just feel condescended to and walk away.
None of this means that you can’t express your own beliefs vehemently (“gay people deserve equal rights!”). It just means that when someone expresses one of theirs, interrogating them bluntly about their reasons—especially if they haven’t questioned them before—is more likely to result in defensiveness than in convincing them or even productive debate. This may run counter to your instincts, understandably, but there it is.
No fuzzy words in the world will soften your language if their inflection reveals intensity and superiority. Display real respect, including learning to read your audience and back off when they’re upset. (You can always return to the topic another time, and in fact, occasional light conversations will probably do a better job with this sort of person than one long intense one.) If you aren’t able to show genuine respect, well, I don’t blame them for refusing to discuss their beliefs with you.
Does the term “bridger” ring a bell for you? (It’s from Greg Egan’s Diaspora, in case it doesn’t, and you’d have to read it to get why I think that would be an apt name for what you’re describing.)
It doesn’t, and I haven’t, although I can infer at least a little from the term itself. Your call if you want to try and explain it or wait for me to remember, find a library that has it, acquire it, and read it before understanding. ;)
Is there any specific subject under that umbrella which you’d like addressed? Narrowing the focus will help me actually put something together.
I wanted to say thank you for providing these services. I like performing the same translations, but it appears I’m unable to be effective in a text medium, requiring immediate feedback, body language, etc. When I saw some of your posts on old articles, apparently just as you arrived, I thought to myself that you would genuinely improve this place in ways that I’ve been thinking were essential.
Thanks! That’s actually really reassuring; that kind of communication can be draining (a lot of people here communicate naturally in a way which takes some work for me to interpret as intended). It is good to hear that it seems to be doing some good.
I’m a translator between people who speak the same language, but don’t communicate.
People who act mostly based on their instincts and emotions, and those who prefer to ignore or squelch those instincts and emotions[1], tend to have difficulty having meaningful conversations with each other. It’s not uncommon for people from these groups to end up in relationships with each other, or at least working or socializing together.
On the spectrum between the two extremes, I am very close to the center. I have an easier time understanding the people on each side than their counterparts do, it frustrates me when they miscommunicate, and I want to help. This includes general techniques (although there are some good books on that already), explanations of words or actions which don’t appear to make sense, and occasional outright translation of phrases (“When they said X, they meant what you would have called Y”).
Is this problem, or this skill, something of interest to the LW community at large? In the several days I’ve been here it’s come up on comment threads a couple times. I have some notes on the subject, and it would be useful for me to get feedback on them; I’d like to some day compile them into a guide written for an audience much like this one. Do you have questions about how to communicate with people who think very much unlike you, or about specific situations that frustrate you? Would you like me to explain what appears to be an arbitrary point of etiquette? Anything else related to the topic which you’d like to see addressed?
In short: “I understand the weird emotional people who are always yelling at you, but I’m also capable of speaking your language. Ask me anything.”
[1] These are both phrased as pejoratively as I could manage, on purpose. Neither extreme is healthy.
One issue I’ve frequently stumbled across is the people who make claims that they have never truly considered. When I ask for more information, point out obvious (to me) counterexamples, or ask them to explain why they believe it, they get defensive and in some cases quite offended. Some don’t want to ever talk about issues because they feel like talking about their beliefs with me is like being subject to some kind of Inquisition. It seems to me that people of this cut believe that to show you care about someone, you should accept anything they say with complete credulity. Have you found good ways to get people to think about what they believe without making them defensive? Do I just have to couch all my responses in fuzzy words? Using weasel words always seemed disingenuous to me, but if I can get someone to actually consider the opposition by saying things like “Idunno, I’m just saying it seems to me, and I might be wrong, that maybe gays are people and deserve all the rights that people get, you know what I’m saying?”
I’ve been on the other side of this, so I definitely understand why people react that way—now let’s see if I understand it well enough to explain it.
For most people, being willing to answer a question or identify a belief is not the same thing as wanting to debate it. If you ask them to tell you one of their beliefs and then immediately try to engage them in justifying it to you, they feel baited and switched into a conflict situation, when they thought they were having a cooperative conversation. You’ve asked them to defend something very personal, and then are acting surprised when they get defensive.
Keep in mind also that most of the time in our culture, when one person challenges another one’s beliefs, it carries the message “your beliefs are wrong.” Even if you don’t state that outright—and even in the probably rare cases when the other person knows you well enough to understand that isn’t your intent—you’re hitting all kinds of emotional buttons which make you seem like an aggressor. This is the result of how the other person is wired, but if you want to be able to have this kind of conversation, it’s in your interest to work with it.
The corollary to the implied “your beliefs are wrong” is “I know better than you” (because that’s how you would tell that they’re wrong). This is an incredibly rude signal to send to—well, anyone, but especially to another adult. Your hackles probably rise too when someone signals that they’re superior to you and you don’t agree; this is the same thing.
The point, then, is not that you need to accept what people you care about say with credulity. It’s that you need to accept it with respect. You do not have any greater value than the person you’re talking to (even if you are smarter and more rational), just like they don’t have any greater value than you (even if they’re richer and more attractive). Even if you really were by some objective measure a better person (which is, as far as I can tell, a useless thing to consider), they don’t think so, and acting like it will get you nowhere.
Possibly one of the hardest parts of this to swallow is that, when you’re choosing words for the purpose of making another person remain comfortable talking to you, whether their beliefs are a good reflection of reality is not actually important. Obviously they think so, and merely contradicting them won’t change that (nor should it). So if you sound like you’re just trying to convince them that they’re wrong, even if that isn’t what you mean to do, they might just feel condescended to and walk away.
None of this means that you can’t express your own beliefs vehemently (“gay people deserve equal rights!”). It just means that when someone expresses one of theirs, interrogating them bluntly about their reasons—especially if they haven’t questioned them before—is more likely to result in defensiveness than in convincing them or even productive debate. This may run counter to your instincts, understandably, but there it is.
No fuzzy words in the world will soften your language if their inflection reveals intensity and superiority. Display real respect, including learning to read your audience and back off when they’re upset. (You can always return to the topic another time, and in fact, occasional light conversations will probably do a better job with this sort of person than one long intense one.) If you aren’t able to show genuine respect, well, I don’t blame them for refusing to discuss their beliefs with you.
Yes please.
Does the term “bridger” ring a bell for you? (It’s from Greg Egan’s Diaspora, in case it doesn’t, and you’d have to read it to get why I think that would be an apt name for what you’re describing.)
It doesn’t, and I haven’t, although I can infer at least a little from the term itself. Your call if you want to try and explain it or wait for me to remember, find a library that has it, acquire it, and read it before understanding. ;)
Is there any specific subject under that umbrella which you’d like addressed? Narrowing the focus will help me actually put something together.
The Wikipedia page explains a little about Bridgers.
I’m afraid if I knew how to narrow this topic down I’d probably be writing it up myself. :)
Hmm. I’m wary of the analogy to separate species; humans treat each other enough like aliens as it is. But so noted, thank you.
I wanted to say thank you for providing these services. I like performing the same translations, but it appears I’m unable to be effective in a text medium, requiring immediate feedback, body language, etc. When I saw some of your posts on old articles, apparently just as you arrived, I thought to myself that you would genuinely improve this place in ways that I’ve been thinking were essential.
Thanks! That’s actually really reassuring; that kind of communication can be draining (a lot of people here communicate naturally in a way which takes some work for me to interpret as intended). It is good to hear that it seems to be doing some good.