I’m a bit torn here, because the ideas in the post seem really important/useful to me (e.g., I use these phrases as a mental pointer sometimes), such that I’d want anyone trying to make sense of the human situation to have access to them (via this post or a number of other attempts at articulating much the same, e.g. “Elephant and the Brain”). And at the same time I think there’s some crucial misunderstanding in it that is dangerous and that I can’t articulate. Voting for it anyhow though.
What seems off to me is the idea that the ‘player’ is some sort of super-powerful incomprehensible lovecraftian optimizer. I think it’s more apt to think of it as like a monkey, but a monkey which happens to share your body and have write access to the deepest patterns of your thought and feeling(see Steven Byrnes’ posts for the best existing articulation of this view). It’s just a monkey, its desires aren’t totally alien and I think it’s quite possible for one’s conscious mind to develop a reasonably good idea of what it wants. That the OP prefers to push the ‘alien/lovecraftian’ framing is interesting and perhaps indicates that they find what their monkey (and/or other peoples’ monkeys) wants repulsive in some way.
I’m guessing your concern feels similar to ones you’ve articulated in the past around… “heart”/”grounded” rationality, or a concern about “disabling pieces of the epistemic immune system”.
I’m curious if 8 mo’s later you feel you can better speak to what you see as the crucial misunderstanding?
I voted very hard for this post. The idea feels correct, though I’d describe it as pointing at a key unresolved confusion/conflict for me. It fuels this quiet voice of doubt about everything I do my life (and about others in theirs). I’m not entirely sure what do with this model though, like, the entailment is missing or something. I voted hard mostly because I see it as the start of an issue to be resolved, not a finished work.
I’m not sure if the lack of “solution/response” or possibility of bad solution/responses is what you think is dangerous, or perhaps something in the very framing itself (if so, I’m not seeing it).
I should probably give the whole topic bit more thought rather than looping on my feelings of “stuck” around it.
I’m a bit torn here, because the ideas in the post seem really important/useful to me (e.g., I use these phrases as a mental pointer sometimes), such that I’d want anyone trying to make sense of the human situation to have access to them (via this post or a number of other attempts at articulating much the same, e.g. “Elephant and the Brain”). And at the same time I think there’s some crucial misunderstanding in it that is dangerous and that I can’t articulate. Voting for it anyhow though.
What seems off to me is the idea that the ‘player’ is some sort of super-powerful incomprehensible lovecraftian optimizer. I think it’s more apt to think of it as like a monkey, but a monkey which happens to share your body and have write access to the deepest patterns of your thought and feeling(see Steven Byrnes’ posts for the best existing articulation of this view). It’s just a monkey, its desires aren’t totally alien and I think it’s quite possible for one’s conscious mind to develop a reasonably good idea of what it wants. That the OP prefers to push the ‘alien/lovecraftian’ framing is interesting and perhaps indicates that they find what their monkey (and/or other peoples’ monkeys) wants repulsive in some way.
I’m guessing your concern feels similar to ones you’ve articulated in the past around… “heart”/”grounded” rationality, or a concern about “disabling pieces of the epistemic immune system”.
I’m curious if 8 mo’s later you feel you can better speak to what you see as the crucial misunderstanding?
I voted very hard for this post. The idea feels correct, though I’d describe it as pointing at a key unresolved confusion/conflict for me. It fuels this quiet voice of doubt about everything I do my life (and about others in theirs). I’m not entirely sure what do with this model though, like, the entailment is missing or something. I voted hard mostly because I see it as the start of an issue to be resolved, not a finished work.
I’m not sure if the lack of “solution/response” or possibility of bad solution/responses is what you think is dangerous, or perhaps something in the very framing itself (if so, I’m not seeing it).
I should probably give the whole topic bit more thought rather than looping on my feelings of “stuck” around it.