Your enemies (and, you know, the rest of humanity) are not innately evil: there are very few people who will willingly torture people. There are quite a lot of people who will torture horrible mockeries of humanity / the Enemy, and an awful lot of people who will torture people because someone in authority told them to, but very few people who feel comfortable with torturing things they consider people. The Chinese governement does some pretty vile things; I nevertheless doubt that every Party bureaucrat would be happy to be involved in them.
Look at what warfare was like in China or Japan before major Western influences (not that is was much better after Western influences).
Vastly inferior to, say, warfare as practiced by 14th-century England, I’m sure. I also point you towards the Rape of Nanking.
Compare that with any group besides “The West”. They would do much worse things and not even bother angsting about it.
You are comparing modern westerners with historical Buddhists. Try considering contemporary Buddhists (the group it is blindingly obvious I was referring to, given that the discussion was about the present and whether contempary non-western groups all lack moral qualms about torture).
Vastly inferior to, say, warfare as practiced by 14th-century England, I’m sure.
I meant the modern west. However,
I also point you towards the Rape of Nanking.
Which was committed by people who were (at least theoretically) Buddhists.
given that the discussion was about the present and whether contempary non-western groups all lack moral qualms about torture
We were? In the comment of mine that started this discussion I wasn’t just referring to contemporary groups.
However, let’s restrict to contemporary states. I take it you count the historically Buddhist countries that are currently under communist regimes as “not really Buddhist” since communism is officially atheist. That leaves, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, and Sri Lanka.
Japan was rather nasty until being beaten by the West, and there are signs it’ll become nasty again given the chance to the extent it doesn’t that’s clearly due to western influences. South Korea and Taiwan are too weak to do much externally, but are admittedly nice places to live, also highly westernized. Dido for Singapore, although it has very strict laws (I approve of them but suspect you might not). Cambodia is somewhat of a mess even if you discount the Khmer Rouge as not Buddhist. Thailand is ok although not powerful enough to do much externally, also rather westernized. Burma is in the running for most oppressive government on the planet. Sri Lanka is dealing with its Tamil minority in a somewhat nasty manner.
There are quite a lot of people who will torture horrible mockeries of humanity / the Enemy, and an awful lot of people who will torture people because someone in authority told them to, but very few people who feel comfortable with torturing things they consider people.
Quite a few adults in the West still advocate corporal punishment to educate their own children.
Compare that with any group besides “The West”. They would do much worse things and not even bother angsting about it.
Counterexample: most Buddhists.
Your enemies (and, you know, the rest of humanity) are not innately evil: there are very few people who will willingly torture people. There are quite a lot of people who will torture horrible mockeries of humanity / the Enemy, and an awful lot of people who will torture people because someone in authority told them to, but very few people who feel comfortable with torturing things they consider people. The Chinese governement does some pretty vile things; I nevertheless doubt that every Party bureaucrat would be happy to be involved in them.
Look at what warfare was like in China or Japan before major Western influences (not that is was much better after Western influences).
Vastly inferior to, say, warfare as practiced by 14th-century England, I’m sure. I also point you towards the Rape of Nanking.
You are comparing modern westerners with historical Buddhists. Try considering contemporary Buddhists (the group it is blindingly obvious I was referring to, given that the discussion was about the present and whether contempary non-western groups all lack moral qualms about torture).
I observe that you are being defensive.
I meant the modern west. However,
Which was committed by people who were (at least theoretically) Buddhists.
We were? In the comment of mine that started this discussion I wasn’t just referring to contemporary groups.
However, let’s restrict to contemporary states. I take it you count the historically Buddhist countries that are currently under communist regimes as “not really Buddhist” since communism is officially atheist. That leaves, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Cambodia, Thailand, Burma, and Sri Lanka.
Japan was rather nasty until being beaten by the West, and there are signs it’ll become nasty again given the chance to the extent it doesn’t that’s clearly due to western influences. South Korea and Taiwan are too weak to do much externally, but are admittedly nice places to live, also highly westernized. Dido for Singapore, although it has very strict laws (I approve of them but suspect you might not). Cambodia is somewhat of a mess even if you discount the Khmer Rouge as not Buddhist. Thailand is ok although not powerful enough to do much externally, also rather westernized. Burma is in the running for most oppressive government on the planet. Sri Lanka is dealing with its Tamil minority in a somewhat nasty manner.
Quite a few adults in the West still advocate corporal punishment to educate their own children.
If we define all deliberate infliction of pain as torture then we lose the use of a useful concept. You are not cutting reality at the joint.
I’m not. I’m defining using physical pain as a means of punishment as torture.
That’s even fairly conservative. Plenty of people also consider activities such as female circumcision for religious purposes torture.
That’s at the very least non-central fallacy.
Ok, that’s just expanding the definition of torture to “anything I disapprove of”.
What’s your preferred definition of torture?