“I am convinced, from many experiments, I could not study, to any degree of perfection, either mathematics, arithmetic, or algebra, without being a Deist, if not an Atheist”—John Wesley founder of Methodism.
It’s from a sermon in which Wesley advocates that Christian should “gain all you can”, “save all you can”, and “give all you can” — a teaching somewhat similar to efficient altruism. Wesley has slightly different priorities, though: he emphasizes providing for the local community first rather than distant humans.
The line you quote comes from the provisos he puts around “gain all you can” — in gist, don’t earn money at the expense of your bodily or mental health or your neighbor’s well-being.
Some context for the quote:
We are, Secondly, to gain all we can without hurting our mind [...]. We must preserve, at all events, the spirit of an healthful mind. [...] There are yet [other trades] which many pursue with perfect innocence, without hurting either their body or mind; And yet perhaps you cannot: Either they may entangle you in that company which would destroy your soul; and by repeated experiments it may appear that you cannot separate the one from the other; or there may be an idiosyncrasy, — a peculiarity in your constitution of soul, [...] by reason whereof that employment is deadly to you, which another may safely follow. So I am convinced, from many experiments, I could not study, to any degree of perfection, either mathematics, arithmetic, or algebra, without being a Deist, if not an Atheist: And yet others may study them all their lives without sustaining any inconvenience. None therefore can here determine for another; but every man must judge for himself, and abstain from whatever he in particular finds to be hurtful to his soul.
The key is the use of the word “experiments”. Wesley is saying that he found that studying mathematics would “entangle [him] in that company which would destroy [his] soul” — that is, the company of deistic and atheistic mathematicians — and that he could not separate mathematical studies from association with those (to his view) corrupting influences.
It’s from a sermon in which Wesley advocates that Christian should “gain all you can”, “save all you can”, and “give all you can” — a teaching somewhat similar to efficient altruism.
doesn’t look very similar to me—it’s missing the “efficient” part; focusing on “how much do you give?” instead of “is it doing any fricking good?”
While you’re certainly technically correct, it’s an easy/common mistake for people to focus on the “save all you can” part, overlooking “gain all you can” opportunities. The EA movement is notable for proactively trying to counter this mistake, and apparently so is John Wesley.
I’m not quite sure what is surprising about this? The 19th century sees plenty of Churches take similar steps along the transition to secular humanist Progressivism, and the beliefs and ethics espoused by the latetter today show clear signs of Christian origins. See Conway Hall Ethical Society for an example.
The Conway Hall Ethical Society, formerly the South Place Ethical Society, based in London at Conway Hall, is thought to be the oldest surviving freethought organisation in the world, and is the only remaining ethical society in the United Kingdom. It now advocates secular humanism and is a member of the International Humanist and Ethical Union.
...
The Society was formed in 1793 by a group of nonconformists known as Philadelphians or Universalists. William Johnson Fox, who had studied theology under Dr Pye Smith, became minister in 1817. In 1824 the congregation built a chapel at South Place, in the district of central London known as Finsbury
Conway Hall is named after an American, Moncure Conway, who led the Society from 1864–1885 and 1892–1897, during which time it moved further away from Unitarianism. Conway spent the break in his tenure in the United States, writing a biography of Thomas Paine. In 1888 the name of the Society was changed from South Place Religious Society to South Place Ethical Society (SPES) under Stanton Coit’s leadership.
“I am convinced, from many experiments, I could not study, to any degree of perfection, either mathematics, arithmetic, or algebra, without being a Deist, if not an Atheist”—John Wesley founder of Methodism.
Not sure what to make of this.
It’s from a sermon in which Wesley advocates that Christian should “gain all you can”, “save all you can”, and “give all you can” — a teaching somewhat similar to efficient altruism. Wesley has slightly different priorities, though: he emphasizes providing for the local community first rather than distant humans.
The line you quote comes from the provisos he puts around “gain all you can” — in gist, don’t earn money at the expense of your bodily or mental health or your neighbor’s well-being.
Some context for the quote:
The key is the use of the word “experiments”. Wesley is saying that he found that studying mathematics would “entangle [him] in that company which would destroy [his] soul” — that is, the company of deistic and atheistic mathematicians — and that he could not separate mathematical studies from association with those (to his view) corrupting influences.
doesn’t look very similar to me—it’s missing the “efficient” part; focusing on “how much do you give?” instead of “is it doing any fricking good?”
While you’re certainly technically correct, it’s an easy/common mistake for people to focus on the “save all you can” part, overlooking “gain all you can” opportunities. The EA movement is notable for proactively trying to counter this mistake, and apparently so is John Wesley.
The closer analog is 80,000 hours, not EA as a whole.
Good point — that is indeed what I was thinking of.
I’m not quite sure what is surprising about this? The 19th century sees plenty of Churches take similar steps along the transition to secular humanist Progressivism, and the beliefs and ethics espoused by the latetter today show clear signs of Christian origins. See Conway Hall Ethical Society for an example.