Oh man, I loved this post. Very vivid mental model for subtle inferential gaps and cross-purposes.
It’s surprising it’s been so long since I thought about it! Surely if it’s such a strong and well-communicated mental model, I would have started using it.. So why did I not?
My guess: the vast majority of conversation frames are still *not the frame which contains talking about frames*. I started recognizing when I wanted to have a timeout and clarify the particular flavor of conversation desired before continuing, but it felt like I broke focus or rappor anytime I had to ask.
If the mentioned subframes carve reality neatly at its joints, I wouldn’t know it. I could have brute force updated on them, going through each frame to consider what experiences I should anticipate if someone is using it, and figuring out what cheap tests I can use to distinguish between them.
I didn’t.
(The right call, in hindsight. I need vastly more social training data: explore rather than exploit… Could have picked a better year to realize this.)
This post succeeded at giving me “a general sense of what to look for”, rather than specific failure modes. Just as it was going for. It just leaves me with a lingering sadness that it didn’t also establish common knowledge for how to go about having that meta conversation u_u
Well the good news is if it gets into the book maybe this time there’ll be common knowledge. :P
I do think there’s an upfront cost of getting your social circle familiar with frame-shifting, even when people are willing and enthusiastic about it, unfortunately.
It does seem like there should probably be a post that focuses explicitly on “how to initiate the frame-meta-conversation if your partner isn’t aware of it yet.”
Oh man, I loved this post. Very vivid mental model for subtle inferential gaps and cross-purposes.
It’s surprising it’s been so long since I thought about it! Surely if it’s such a strong and well-communicated mental model, I would have started using it.. So why did I not?
My guess: the vast majority of conversation frames are still *not the frame which contains talking about frames*. I started recognizing when I wanted to have a timeout and clarify the particular flavor of conversation desired before continuing, but it felt like I broke focus or rappor anytime I had to ask.
If the mentioned subframes carve reality neatly at its joints, I wouldn’t know it. I could have brute force updated on them, going through each frame to consider what experiences I should anticipate if someone is using it, and figuring out what cheap tests I can use to distinguish between them.
I didn’t.
(The right call, in hindsight. I need vastly more social training data: explore rather than exploit… Could have picked a better year to realize this.)
This post succeeded at giving me “a general sense of what to look for”, rather than specific failure modes. Just as it was going for. It just leaves me with a lingering sadness that it didn’t also establish common knowledge for how to go about having that meta conversation u_u
Well the good news is if it gets into the book maybe this time there’ll be common knowledge. :P
I do think there’s an upfront cost of getting your social circle familiar with frame-shifting, even when people are willing and enthusiastic about it, unfortunately.
It does seem like there should probably be a post that focuses explicitly on “how to initiate the frame-meta-conversation if your partner isn’t aware of it yet.”