Differences in politics and policies are largely driven not by disagreements over the right way to reach the goal, but by decisions which goals to pursue and what trade-offs are acceptable as the price.
Disagreements including this one? It sounds as though you are saying in a conversation such as this one, you are more focused on working to achieve your values than trying to figure out what’s true about the world… like, say, Arthur Chu. Am I reading you correctly in supporting something akin to Arthur Chu’s position, or do I misunderstand?
Given how irrational people can be about politics, I’d guess that in many cases apparent “value” differences boil down to people being mindkilled in different ways. As rationalists, the goal is to have a calm, thoughtful, evidence-based discussion and figure out what’s true. Building a map and unmindkilling one another is a collaborative project.
There are times when there is a fundamental value difference, but my feeling is that this is the possibility to be explored last. And if you do want to explore it, you should ask clarifying values questions (like “do you give the harms from a European woman who is raped and a Muslim woman who is raped equal weight?”) in order to suss out the precise nature of the value difference.
Anyway, if you do agree with Arthur Chu that the best approach is to charge ahead imposing your values, why are you on Less Wrong? There’s an entire internet out there of people having Arthur Chu style debates you could join. Less Wrong is a tiny region of the internet where we have Scott Alexander style debates, and we’d like to keep it that way.
you are more focused on working to achieve your values than trying to figure out what’s true about the world
That’s a false dichotomy. Epistemic rationality and working to achieve your values are largely orthogonal and are not opposed to each other. In fact, epistemic rationality is useful to achieving your values because of instrumental rationality.
I’d guess that in many cases apparent “value” differences boil down to people being mindkilled in different ways.
So you do not think that many people have sufficiently different and irreconcilable values?
I wonder how are you going to distinguish “true” values and “mindkill-generated” values. Take some random ISIS fighter in Iraq, what are his “true” values?
my feeling is that this is the possibility to be explored last.
I disagree, I think it’s useful to figure out value differences before spending a lot of time on figuring out whether we agree about how the world works.
...where we have...
Who’s that “we”? It is a bit ironic that you felt the need to use the pseudonymous handle to claim that you represent the views of all LW… X-)
Disagreements including this one? It sounds as though you are saying in a conversation such as this one, you are more focused on working to achieve your values than trying to figure out what’s true about the world… like, say, Arthur Chu. Am I reading you correctly in supporting something akin to Arthur Chu’s position, or do I misunderstand?
Given how irrational people can be about politics, I’d guess that in many cases apparent “value” differences boil down to people being mindkilled in different ways. As rationalists, the goal is to have a calm, thoughtful, evidence-based discussion and figure out what’s true. Building a map and unmindkilling one another is a collaborative project.
There are times when there is a fundamental value difference, but my feeling is that this is the possibility to be explored last. And if you do want to explore it, you should ask clarifying values questions (like “do you give the harms from a European woman who is raped and a Muslim woman who is raped equal weight?”) in order to suss out the precise nature of the value difference.
Anyway, if you do agree with Arthur Chu that the best approach is to charge ahead imposing your values, why are you on Less Wrong? There’s an entire internet out there of people having Arthur Chu style debates you could join. Less Wrong is a tiny region of the internet where we have Scott Alexander style debates, and we’d like to keep it that way.
That’s a false dichotomy. Epistemic rationality and working to achieve your values are largely orthogonal and are not opposed to each other. In fact, epistemic rationality is useful to achieving your values because of instrumental rationality.
So you do not think that many people have sufficiently different and irreconcilable values?
I wonder how are you going to distinguish “true” values and “mindkill-generated” values. Take some random ISIS fighter in Iraq, what are his “true” values?
I disagree, I think it’s useful to figure out value differences before spending a lot of time on figuring out whether we agree about how the world works.
Who’s that “we”? It is a bit ironic that you felt the need to use the pseudonymous handle to claim that you represent the views of all LW… X-)