“a statement about reality” is a pure and independent concept, free of the burden of language”
This is a false premise. There is no such thing.
i.e. to claim something is to give motion for or against a given thought or action through utterances according with the relevant conventions of language. This is a linguistic practice perforce.
A conceived state of reality is something that happens in your head, not in writing or spoken aloud. The utterance of a claim is an attempt to convey this conceived state to someone else. You seem to be bordering on rejecting objective reality altogether; if there are no minds in the universe is a rock still a rock? In such a universe there would be no language, but you would agree that A still equals A, right? If you were alone and had no one to talk to, could you not still understand your surroundings via internal models of reality?
Edit: in short the fact that A=A, the concept that A=A, and the utterance A=A, are all unique things and to try to combine the latter two is unjustified.
I think this idle circularity flows from your non-ordinary use of ‘claim’ and ‘statement’, which you seem to be using in special ways.
The Google definitions of each given as the first return from the search-function:
Statement, “a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing”.
Claim, “state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof”.
The object of our disagreement, ‘evaluating a claim’, if we follow ordinary language, means passing judgement over a linguistic statement, an obvious condition of which is finding that utterance properly intelligible.
When you say “A statement about reality is not to be confused with the utterance of a claim” [where confusingly, you define ‘statement about reality’ and ‘claim’ synonymously] you simply redefine the terms of the problem and discussion. As I have said all along, you are misusing words.
I don’t want to go into—because it’s a red herring—the possibility of pure and independent access to reality, suffice it to say that it’s philosophically absurd.
Also note that you don’t get to define the terms that I’m using—I do.
do you not understand?
I know I am using non-standard definitions in the context of this discussion in order to make my points more clear.
Your argument has boiled down to “MY definition of your words says that you are saying X, which is wrong” when I am in fact saying Y, which you have not responded to. I don’t care about what you (or Google) say evaluating a claim is supposed to mean, because what we are discussing is what I mean when I say it. The “idle circularity” flows from your failure to acknowledge different uses of words in the context of this discussion and respond to my actual points. If you want to get somewhere, perhaps you should reread my definitions and actually consider what I am saying.
This is a false premise. There is no such thing.
i.e. to claim something is to give motion for or against a given thought or action through utterances according with the relevant conventions of language. This is a linguistic practice perforce.
A conceived state of reality is something that happens in your head, not in writing or spoken aloud. The utterance of a claim is an attempt to convey this conceived state to someone else. You seem to be bordering on rejecting objective reality altogether; if there are no minds in the universe is a rock still a rock? In such a universe there would be no language, but you would agree that A still equals A, right? If you were alone and had no one to talk to, could you not still understand your surroundings via internal models of reality?
Edit: in short the fact that A=A, the concept that A=A, and the utterance A=A, are all unique things and to try to combine the latter two is unjustified.
I think this idle circularity flows from your non-ordinary use of ‘claim’ and ‘statement’, which you seem to be using in special ways.
The Google definitions of each given as the first return from the search-function:
Statement, “a definite or clear expression of something in speech or writing”.
Claim, “state or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof”.
The object of our disagreement, ‘evaluating a claim’, if we follow ordinary language, means passing judgement over a linguistic statement, an obvious condition of which is finding that utterance properly intelligible.
When you say “A statement about reality is not to be confused with the utterance of a claim” [where confusingly, you define ‘statement about reality’ and ‘claim’ synonymously] you simply redefine the terms of the problem and discussion. As I have said all along, you are misusing words.
I don’t want to go into—because it’s a red herring—the possibility of pure and independent access to reality, suffice it to say that it’s philosophically absurd.
What part of
do you not understand?
I know I am using non-standard definitions in the context of this discussion in order to make my points more clear.
Your argument has boiled down to “MY definition of your words says that you are saying X, which is wrong” when I am in fact saying Y, which you have not responded to. I don’t care about what you (or Google) say evaluating a claim is supposed to mean, because what we are discussing is what I mean when I say it. The “idle circularity” flows from your failure to acknowledge different uses of words in the context of this discussion and respond to my actual points. If you want to get somewhere, perhaps you should reread my definitions and actually consider what I am saying.