Do you also find it acceptable to torture humans you don’t personally know, or a pet that someone purchased only for the joy of torturing it and not for any other service? If not, the companionship explanation is invalid and likely a rationalization.
How many randomly sampled humans would I rather condemn to torture to save my mother? Idk, more than one, tbh.
pet that someone purchased only for the joy of torturing it and not for any other service?
Unvirtuous. This human is disgusting as they consider it fun to deal a lot of harm to the persons in their direct relationships.
Also I really don’t like how you jump into “it’s all rationalization” with respect to values!
Like, the thing about utilitarian -ish value systems is that they deal poorly with preferences of other people (they mostly ignore them). Preference based views deal poorly with creation and not creation of new persons.
I can redteam them and find real murderous decision recommendations.
Maybe like, instead of anchoring to the first proposed value system maybe it’s better to understand what are the values of real life people? Maybe there is no simple formulation of them, maybe it’s a complex thing.
Also, disclaimer, I’m totally for making animals better off! (Including wild animals) Just I don’t think it’s an inference from some larger moral principle, it’s just my aesthetic preference, and it’s not that strong. And I’m kinda annoyed at EAs who by “animal welfare” mean dealing band aids to farm chickens. Like, why? You can just help to make that lab grown meat a thing faster, it’s literally the only thing that going change it.
Do you also find it acceptable to torture humans you don’t personally know, or a pet that someone purchased only for the joy of torturing it and not for any other service? If not, the companionship explanation is invalid and likely a rationalization.
How many randomly sampled humans would I rather condemn to torture to save my mother? Idk, more than one, tbh.
Unvirtuous. This human is disgusting as they consider it fun to deal a lot of harm to the persons in their direct relationships.
Also I really don’t like how you jump into “it’s all rationalization” with respect to values!
Like, the thing about utilitarian -ish value systems is that they deal poorly with preferences of other people (they mostly ignore them). Preference based views deal poorly with creation and not creation of new persons.
I can redteam them and find real murderous decision recommendations.
Maybe like, instead of anchoring to the first proposed value system maybe it’s better to understand what are the values of real life people? Maybe there is no simple formulation of them, maybe it’s a complex thing.
Also, disclaimer, I’m totally for making animals better off! (Including wild animals) Just I don’t think it’s an inference from some larger moral principle, it’s just my aesthetic preference, and it’s not that strong. And I’m kinda annoyed at EAs who by “animal welfare” mean dealing band aids to farm chickens. Like, why? You can just help to make that lab grown meat a thing faster, it’s literally the only thing that going change it.