While I’m extremely critical of the Ziz-cult, I have to admit that her theory of core self vs. narrative self is very close to my own thinking (although I think hyperbolic discounting exists in addition to the core/narrative dynamics.) I also did some kind of “deconstructing the matrix” when thinking about this. However, I strongly depart from her theory of morals. While I care about other people, I do so very non-uniformly so I’m nowhere near utilitarianism. For example, I’m against animal suffering but it probably wouldn’t be worth it for me to be vegan if not for signalling value (while it probably would be worth it for me if I could make everyone vegan including myself.) I guess this might just mean that in her terminology I’m evil? However, I am very much in favor of engaging in mutually beneficial trade with other people, and in favor of creating social norms/matrices that are better for everyone.
Similar. I also pretty strongly think that e.g. many of the core beliefs driving our behavior have nothing to do with their stated reasons and are actually social strategies. But the whole hemisphere thing, as well as the vehemence that Ziz has around her moral views, don’t seem compelling to me. They give me a strong vibe of themselves being derived from some unacknowledged emotional strategy she has going on, rather than reflecting any kind of real truth.
Yes, I’m very skeptical that Ziz is truly at her core the perfect utilitarian she claims to be, however, even in the universe in which that is true, I still want to own up to being “evil”. Not because I deserve accolades for my selfishness (I don’t), but because being honest is an important part of my life strategy and the sort of social norms I promote.
I wasn’t making a proposal about turning everyone vegan. I was just observing that, at least if everyone was like me, the situation would have a “tragedy of the commons” payoff matrix (the Nash equilibrium is “everyone isn’t vegan”, the Pareto optimum is “everyone is vegan”.)
While I’m extremely critical of the Ziz-cult, I have to admit that her theory of core self vs. narrative self is very close to my own thinking (although I think hyperbolic discounting exists in addition to the core/narrative dynamics.) I also did some kind of “deconstructing the matrix” when thinking about this. However, I strongly depart from her theory of morals. While I care about other people, I do so very non-uniformly so I’m nowhere near utilitarianism. For example, I’m against animal suffering but it probably wouldn’t be worth it for me to be vegan if not for signalling value (while it probably would be worth it for me if I could make everyone vegan including myself.) I guess this might just mean that in her terminology I’m evil? However, I am very much in favor of engaging in mutually beneficial trade with other people, and in favor of creating social norms/matrices that are better for everyone.
Similar. I also pretty strongly think that e.g. many of the core beliefs driving our behavior have nothing to do with their stated reasons and are actually social strategies. But the whole hemisphere thing, as well as the vehemence that Ziz has around her moral views, don’t seem compelling to me. They give me a strong vibe of themselves being derived from some unacknowledged emotional strategy she has going on, rather than reflecting any kind of real truth.
Yes, I’m very skeptical that Ziz is truly at her core the perfect utilitarian she claims to be, however, even in the universe in which that is true, I still want to own up to being “evil”. Not because I deserve accolades for my selfishness (I don’t), but because being honest is an important part of my life strategy and the sort of social norms I promote.
Pattern Replied:
How does one go about making everyone vegan?
I wasn’t making a proposal about turning everyone vegan. I was just observing that, at least if everyone was like me, the situation would have a “tragedy of the commons” payoff matrix (the Nash equilibrium is “everyone isn’t vegan”, the Pareto optimum is “everyone is vegan”.)
I wasn’t suggesting modification—just changing social norms.