The Last Psychiatrist talked a lot about the difference between (his definitions of) guilt and shame. To him (warning: noob summary of very complex ideas coming up), guilt was a thing you felt inside, and shame was the social aspect of it. Most important to his view was the idea that talking among the public, your friends, etc, about things you feel guilty about, converts that guilt into shame, and shame is easier to bear. So in some cases, where you know you’ve done something seriously wrong, maybe you shouldn’t externalize it too much—because that makes it too easy to bear / forget / etc. Here’s a good article that uses this perspective of his: https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/12/infidelity_and_other_taboos_me.html
Huh. Yeah, that is interesting, hadn’t seen that before.
What that makes me think of with respect to McLaren’s definitions is the difference between the appropriate response to authentic shame (“what must be made right?”), and the usual Obstructed response to applied/manufactured shame — what I think of first is doing a sort of “performative penance”, to assuage the social aspect and get social forgiveness without making any actual behavioral changes, probably internalizing it for a while afterward.
But McLaren does mention the exact opposite being a possible outcome too, of loudly not paying penance at all and declaring that there’s nothing to give penance for anyway, which is what your linked article sounds a lot like. I and the people around me are so used to the first Obstructed response that I wasn’t sure what the second would look like exactly, but that article is a great example. I think that’s what happens when you decide that all shame, authentic and applied/manufactured, is bad for you and needs to be thrown out all together.
Distinguishing between the types seems to be the main thing that lets you not be racked with external shame while still owning your own authentic shame. (or at least, it’s feeling like that for me so far)
(If this seems like I’m going a bit far to try applying this to everything, that’s because it’s my general strategy when given a new hammer; see what around me is close enough to a nail for it to be useful ;) )
The Last Psychiatrist talked a lot about the difference between (his definitions of) guilt and shame. To him (warning: noob summary of very complex ideas coming up), guilt was a thing you felt inside, and shame was the social aspect of it. Most important to his view was the idea that talking among the public, your friends, etc, about things you feel guilty about, converts that guilt into shame, and shame is easier to bear. So in some cases, where you know you’ve done something seriously wrong, maybe you shouldn’t externalize it too much—because that makes it too easy to bear / forget / etc. Here’s a good article that uses this perspective of his: https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/12/infidelity_and_other_taboos_me.html
Huh. Yeah, that is interesting, hadn’t seen that before.
What that makes me think of with respect to McLaren’s definitions is the difference between the appropriate response to authentic shame (“what must be made right?”), and the usual Obstructed response to applied/manufactured shame — what I think of first is doing a sort of “performative penance”, to assuage the social aspect and get social forgiveness without making any actual behavioral changes, probably internalizing it for a while afterward.
But McLaren does mention the exact opposite being a possible outcome too, of loudly not paying penance at all and declaring that there’s nothing to give penance for anyway, which is what your linked article sounds a lot like. I and the people around me are so used to the first Obstructed response that I wasn’t sure what the second would look like exactly, but that article is a great example. I think that’s what happens when you decide that all shame, authentic and applied/manufactured, is bad for you and needs to be thrown out all together.
Distinguishing between the types seems to be the main thing that lets you not be racked with external shame while still owning your own authentic shame. (or at least, it’s feeling like that for me so far)
(If this seems like I’m going a bit far to try applying this to everything, that’s because it’s my general strategy when given a new hammer; see what around me is close enough to a nail for it to be useful ;) )