From what I gathered if two sellers would sell the exact same product but another seller could sell it at double the price it would become a favoured node. If they were not interchangeable products you could try to argue that the difference must be between the quality of the products. However if the same product has the same use value the measure is more about better extracting profits. There is the effect that given choice of equal product at cheaper or higher price a consumer ought to go with the lower cost. Competetive effects are supposed to kill off overpriced products but giving a bonus to seller for having a big mark up dulls their teeth.
This is a tough one because most of the readily available literature on competition and market take a specific approach. Specific in the sense of time. Of course at the instant we don’t want people favoring more expensive things...unless there is a damn good reason to. If you add in time though things get very interesting. This system alters the proposition to current market decision + future potential. You wouldn’t pay more just to pay more, but you might buy a Tesla instead of a Honda accord because you think that Tesla had better long term earning potential and you are getting in on the ground floor.
Most of the things we buy aren’t commodities. There is some trade off on features vs cost. This system does tip the scales toward things that may be more expensive, but only if there is a long term advancement that can be leveraged.
In the instance where we actually deal with a commodity, more emphasis will be placed on the long term repetitive production of that commodity. If the commodity can’t be renewed it will be less favored. Thus I’d expect a vector away from depletable goods and toward renewable alternatives.
These assumptions are harder to work into a model.
You could offer the Tesla at a high price or a lower price. If the price is higher individual sells will move the company quicker to ground floor. That is Tesla + 1 stock will probably cost less than Tesla + 10 stock. But what is that prevents from offering the option of Tesla + 0 stock or the minimum amount of stock allowed?
There is also the issue that if you think you can afford Tesla + 5 stock but could not afford Tesla + 0 stock you might end up with Tesla that bombs harder than just taking a unpaybackable loan for Tesla + 0 stock. That is when the future component factors in to everyday products future speculation will impact the price of milk. People might have a bigger resistance to buy into things because it doesn’t need to only work in the moment but it needs to work for the future as well. You can’t look at your accout balance and know how well of you are as you are expecting uncertain returns, returns you might need to stay on the positives.
Thanks for the feedback. I’m not quite sure I understand your concerns. Are you concerned that people will offer different levels of stock to different people? That is not exactly how I imagined things working. $1 spent = 1 unit of stock(point/air line mile/smoods/call them what you will it is a unit of account).
In general I think we should be more forward looking. I don’t see much of a negative in causing people to consider the future implication of their actions. We are limiting anyone’s freedom. You can still buy from the less attractive vendor if you want.
Even if the amount of “stock” is the same constant for everybody there is still a decision how big a portion it should represent. In the extreme the only stocks are from the $1 in 1 stock out principle. But in a way the enterpreneur should also have stock in it. If the enterpreneur reserves 1000 stocks for himself that would be the equivalent of a 100 stock person giving out 10 stocks per $. If the starter doesn’t have any stock he doesn’t own it he just operates it for the customer-owners.
Ahh...I see...The ‘stock’ that consumers get in hypercapitalism isn’t a stock of ownership or voting stock. It is a kind of non-voting prefered stock. Really it is more like an airline mile. It doesn’t affect what dividends are paid or the cap table.
Okay I think I identified more preciusly what is it. I will just call it arbitrarily “shard” to make special note that we are defining (or I am figuring out) and that analogs with other things might not apply.
Shard is a right that has a holder and target (ie it can be spesified as a two place predicate s(a,b)). Having multiple shards of same holder and target can be expressed as having a single relation with a strenght in it (ie that s(a,b,100) a has 100 of shards on b).
During regular intervals (which most simply is annually but can be tought to also happen smoothly constantly) there happens a lazy money redistribution event. First we mark everybodys money as “lazy”. We take a portion of everybodys lazy money that they have and mark “waking percent” of it as unlazy. This money will no longer be touched by the event and where the money woke up will be availble to use after the event. For each person we take whatever lazy money they have left (the remaining “dozing percent”) and distribute it equally among all shards that have that person as their target. If A has 10000 and we use 90% waking percent this result in 1000 lazy money and B has 10 shards on him, C has got 25 and D got 5 then B gets 250, C gets 625 and D 125. This happens “simultaneously” for everyone ie can be done in any order (you have to keep track of money before the round started and received this round). Then we start again by waking up percentage of the money of the lazy money and keep doing this until some cut off point (such as under 1$ moved total in round) where the amount of lazy money is low.
This is the claim and the effect of the shard (once it exists). The interesting thing is that the more shards you hold the more you stand to benefit from the redistribution event. Eveyrthing else is derivative of this effect.
Now the idea is that shards are created when you transfer money to someone. Thus a person can’t have more lazy money than there are shards on him. A person can have way less lazy money. If you can’t go into the negatives the least is 0. However by giving it away you inevitably create shards into your holding. Thus even if your own lazy money would be 0 the lazy money you get from the shards will partly go to those that hold shards on you. And because money can’t be destroyed or created by moving each round the money shuffled around is constant. Thus shards can never be totally worthless (in the sense of giving you right to 0 amount of receiving in the redistribution event). However shards that are more “direct” are worth more. With a waking rate of 90% making a shard to person that won’t have lazy money but will make shards only to totally lazy persons is worth 0.01 in the next distribution event while a direct shard would have been worth 0.1. However being the middle man, receiving 1 money and giving it to a totally non-giving (lazy) man is worth 0.09 money in the next redistribution (if all you do is this kind of thing) while the net effect on your point wealth is 0.
To paralel I will give a different formulation. Define a totally unrelated instrument that I will arbitrarily call “portion”. Portion is also a holder,target,magnitude kind of thing. It also is relevant in a redistribution event. Howeve the rules differ a little. All of the lazy money is shared equally among portions. If the portion is on yourself you mark it as unlazy and get to keep it after the event. Then the lazy money is given to the portion holder. Repeat until lazy money has sufficently vanished.
Now the portion generation mechanism is this. When you transfer money to a party you generate a “prociety percentage” of portions on the recipient to yourself and whatever remains of 100% you generate portions on the receiver to the receiver. That is A giving 200 to B with prociety percentage 10 will net A 20 B portions and B 160 B portions.
Both the shard mechanism and portion mechanism results in the same redistribution of money and shards are as valuable as portions. You just never have shards on yourself, so it can be likened to a notational difference. However the idea is that your shard value represents your skill as a consumer. It sounded somehow as plausible idea but as I explictly write it out it seems that those with highest shard values have the lowest trickle-down effects on the economy. If it would be true then the consumer with no consumption would be the master consumer (if all depend on you but you don’t depend on anyone it makes sense). It would also seem to reward those that get those that didn’t consume to consume.
Can you precisely define what this consumer ‘stock’ is? You seem to think of it as a legally binding claim to a long stream of future payments which make it look like a bond. An airline mile is basically a disguised discount and it’s a one-time thing, you use it and it’s gone. Preferred shares have no legally binding obligation to pay out anything.
From what I gathered if two sellers would sell the exact same product but another seller could sell it at double the price it would become a favoured node. If they were not interchangeable products you could try to argue that the difference must be between the quality of the products. However if the same product has the same use value the measure is more about better extracting profits. There is the effect that given choice of equal product at cheaper or higher price a consumer ought to go with the lower cost. Competetive effects are supposed to kill off overpriced products but giving a bonus to seller for having a big mark up dulls their teeth.
This is a tough one because most of the readily available literature on competition and market take a specific approach. Specific in the sense of time. Of course at the instant we don’t want people favoring more expensive things...unless there is a damn good reason to. If you add in time though things get very interesting. This system alters the proposition to current market decision + future potential. You wouldn’t pay more just to pay more, but you might buy a Tesla instead of a Honda accord because you think that Tesla had better long term earning potential and you are getting in on the ground floor.
Most of the things we buy aren’t commodities. There is some trade off on features vs cost. This system does tip the scales toward things that may be more expensive, but only if there is a long term advancement that can be leveraged.
In the instance where we actually deal with a commodity, more emphasis will be placed on the long term repetitive production of that commodity. If the commodity can’t be renewed it will be less favored. Thus I’d expect a vector away from depletable goods and toward renewable alternatives.
These assumptions are harder to work into a model.
You could offer the Tesla at a high price or a lower price. If the price is higher individual sells will move the company quicker to ground floor. That is Tesla + 1 stock will probably cost less than Tesla + 10 stock. But what is that prevents from offering the option of Tesla + 0 stock or the minimum amount of stock allowed?
There is also the issue that if you think you can afford Tesla + 5 stock but could not afford Tesla + 0 stock you might end up with Tesla that bombs harder than just taking a unpaybackable loan for Tesla + 0 stock. That is when the future component factors in to everyday products future speculation will impact the price of milk. People might have a bigger resistance to buy into things because it doesn’t need to only work in the moment but it needs to work for the future as well. You can’t look at your accout balance and know how well of you are as you are expecting uncertain returns, returns you might need to stay on the positives.
Thanks for the feedback. I’m not quite sure I understand your concerns. Are you concerned that people will offer different levels of stock to different people? That is not exactly how I imagined things working. $1 spent = 1 unit of stock(point/air line mile/smoods/call them what you will it is a unit of account).
In general I think we should be more forward looking. I don’t see much of a negative in causing people to consider the future implication of their actions. We are limiting anyone’s freedom. You can still buy from the less attractive vendor if you want.
Even if the amount of “stock” is the same constant for everybody there is still a decision how big a portion it should represent. In the extreme the only stocks are from the $1 in 1 stock out principle. But in a way the enterpreneur should also have stock in it. If the enterpreneur reserves 1000 stocks for himself that would be the equivalent of a 100 stock person giving out 10 stocks per $. If the starter doesn’t have any stock he doesn’t own it he just operates it for the customer-owners.
Ahh...I see...The ‘stock’ that consumers get in hypercapitalism isn’t a stock of ownership or voting stock. It is a kind of non-voting prefered stock. Really it is more like an airline mile. It doesn’t affect what dividends are paid or the cap table.
Okay I think I identified more preciusly what is it. I will just call it arbitrarily “shard” to make special note that we are defining (or I am figuring out) and that analogs with other things might not apply.
Shard is a right that has a holder and target (ie it can be spesified as a two place predicate s(a,b)). Having multiple shards of same holder and target can be expressed as having a single relation with a strenght in it (ie that s(a,b,100) a has 100 of shards on b).
During regular intervals (which most simply is annually but can be tought to also happen smoothly constantly) there happens a lazy money redistribution event. First we mark everybodys money as “lazy”. We take a portion of everybodys lazy money that they have and mark “waking percent” of it as unlazy. This money will no longer be touched by the event and where the money woke up will be availble to use after the event. For each person we take whatever lazy money they have left (the remaining “dozing percent”) and distribute it equally among all shards that have that person as their target. If A has 10000 and we use 90% waking percent this result in 1000 lazy money and B has 10 shards on him, C has got 25 and D got 5 then B gets 250, C gets 625 and D 125. This happens “simultaneously” for everyone ie can be done in any order (you have to keep track of money before the round started and received this round). Then we start again by waking up percentage of the money of the lazy money and keep doing this until some cut off point (such as under 1$ moved total in round) where the amount of lazy money is low.
This is the claim and the effect of the shard (once it exists). The interesting thing is that the more shards you hold the more you stand to benefit from the redistribution event. Eveyrthing else is derivative of this effect.
Now the idea is that shards are created when you transfer money to someone. Thus a person can’t have more lazy money than there are shards on him. A person can have way less lazy money. If you can’t go into the negatives the least is 0. However by giving it away you inevitably create shards into your holding. Thus even if your own lazy money would be 0 the lazy money you get from the shards will partly go to those that hold shards on you. And because money can’t be destroyed or created by moving each round the money shuffled around is constant. Thus shards can never be totally worthless (in the sense of giving you right to 0 amount of receiving in the redistribution event). However shards that are more “direct” are worth more. With a waking rate of 90% making a shard to person that won’t have lazy money but will make shards only to totally lazy persons is worth 0.01 in the next distribution event while a direct shard would have been worth 0.1. However being the middle man, receiving 1 money and giving it to a totally non-giving (lazy) man is worth 0.09 money in the next redistribution (if all you do is this kind of thing) while the net effect on your point wealth is 0.
To paralel I will give a different formulation. Define a totally unrelated instrument that I will arbitrarily call “portion”. Portion is also a holder,target,magnitude kind of thing. It also is relevant in a redistribution event. Howeve the rules differ a little. All of the lazy money is shared equally among portions. If the portion is on yourself you mark it as unlazy and get to keep it after the event. Then the lazy money is given to the portion holder. Repeat until lazy money has sufficently vanished.
Now the portion generation mechanism is this. When you transfer money to a party you generate a “prociety percentage” of portions on the recipient to yourself and whatever remains of 100% you generate portions on the receiver to the receiver. That is A giving 200 to B with prociety percentage 10 will net A 20 B portions and B 160 B portions.
Both the shard mechanism and portion mechanism results in the same redistribution of money and shards are as valuable as portions. You just never have shards on yourself, so it can be likened to a notational difference. However the idea is that your shard value represents your skill as a consumer. It sounded somehow as plausible idea but as I explictly write it out it seems that those with highest shard values have the lowest trickle-down effects on the economy. If it would be true then the consumer with no consumption would be the master consumer (if all depend on you but you don’t depend on anyone it makes sense). It would also seem to reward those that get those that didn’t consume to consume.
Can you precisely define what this consumer ‘stock’ is? You seem to think of it as a legally binding claim to a long stream of future payments which make it look like a bond. An airline mile is basically a disguised discount and it’s a one-time thing, you use it and it’s gone. Preferred shares have no legally binding obligation to pay out anything.