Right, I am including that aspect in my summary. I put it in different words (“shallow acting” vs. “attention to signals”) to make the concepts a little easier to work with for my style of writing.
My impression was that you agreed that dropping efforts to signal brought the main benefits you’re concerned with here, by changing the signals you’re sending, typically in ways that come across as more trustworthy. Here are some additional quotes that gave me this impression:
Maybe I bias toward signals that (a) are harder for a dishonest version of me to send and (b) that Bob can tell are harder for sleazy-me to send.
One result is that those signals that would be costly to sleazy-me to send would appear much, much more effortlessly here… They just happen, because the emphasis is on letting truth speak simply for itself.
Even if this latter scenario works, it can’t work as efficiently as dropping all effort to signal and just being honest does. The signals just automatically reflect reality in the latter case.
Raymond D: My main takeaway from this post is that it’s important to distinguish between sending signals and trying to send signals, because the latter often leads to goodharting.
You: That is a wonderful summary.
As such, I interpret “drop all efforts to signal,” which I labeled as “authenticity,” as an approach to generating signals, which you’re claiming is morally and instrumentally better than signal manipulation (labeled “shallow acting”). You claim that what makes shallow acting/attention to signals problematic is that it “tends to create Goodhart drift,” and alleviating this problem is what makes dropping efforts to signal a superior way to generate signals. The brevity of your response makes me think you perceive me as having fundamentally misunderstood your post, but it doesn’t give me a lot to go on as far as updating my understanding, if so.
Right, I am including that aspect in my summary. I put it in different words (“shallow acting” vs. “attention to signals”) to make the concepts a little easier to work with for my style of writing.
My impression was that you agreed that dropping efforts to signal brought the main benefits you’re concerned with here, by changing the signals you’re sending, typically in ways that come across as more trustworthy. Here are some additional quotes that gave me this impression:
As such, I interpret “drop all efforts to signal,” which I labeled as “authenticity,” as an approach to generating signals, which you’re claiming is morally and instrumentally better than signal manipulation (labeled “shallow acting”). You claim that what makes shallow acting/attention to signals problematic is that it “tends to create Goodhart drift,” and alleviating this problem is what makes dropping efforts to signal a superior way to generate signals. The brevity of your response makes me think you perceive me as having fundamentally misunderstood your post, but it doesn’t give me a lot to go on as far as updating my understanding, if so.