“Secondly, atheists seem to be invariably highly selfish people. It is apparently impossible to find a well-documented case of an atheist who was kind, honest, sober and sexually responsible. It is impossible to find a case of a government that officially promoted atheism, which demonstrated any great concern for the welfare of its citizens”
Biggest donation ever made—Warren Buffett (considers himself an agnostic).
It is true that some of the worst people of this century were ‘atheists’. That’s probably because many religions contain a payload of decent values, and doing what these people did takes not being scared shitless about god ripping your head off. But to me that’s like putting down chemistry because Nazis used it to kill people.
As a general rule, whenever you turn to your version of ‘morality’ to undermine someone’s logical argument you are showing your hand (as not being interested in the truth).
Im not taking a side on this little arguement, but Jacob posted an arguement against atheists, and the two examples of counter-evidence given were about agnostics. Did I miss something?
Those of us who do take either side generally count agnostics as atheists. Atheists do so due to a Russell’s Teapot, empiricist-type attitude (and the political advantages of counting the more polite members of a tribe).
The replies are a bit narrowly and inappropriately focussed, considering how universally bad Jacob’s post was. (I can go through it more thoroughly if you think that this would be worth while.)
I can only guess that xandam is a fan of Warren Buffett, so that a reference to donations by atheists (of some sort or other) caught his eye.
I don’t see why anybody bothered, really, there is a more than adequate rebuttal in the comments themselves.
Most poignant: who’s responsibility is it to define a deity? The believer or the nonbeliever?
The crux of the Jewish Philospher’s argument is that atheists have trouble defining “god”, yet why in the world would they be expected to define something they don’t believe in? Do I have to know all the major and minor Roman deities in order to not believe in them? Of course not, the idea is silly. Jewish Philosopher certainly doesn’t believe in them, yet I doubt he knows them all. By his own argument, how can he possibly not believe in them either?
The arguments sound intelligent on the surface, but it doesn’t take a whole lot of questioning before you realize they are silly and illogical (primarily ad hominem, followed closely by the straw men).
“Secondly, atheists seem to be invariably highly selfish people. It is apparently impossible to find a well-documented case of an atheist who was kind, honest, sober and sexually responsible. It is impossible to find a case of a government that officially promoted atheism, which demonstrated any great concern for the welfare of its citizens”
Biggest donation ever made—Warren Buffett (considers himself an agnostic).
It is true that some of the worst people of this century were ‘atheists’. That’s probably because many religions contain a payload of decent values, and doing what these people did takes not being scared shitless about god ripping your head off. But to me that’s like putting down chemistry because Nazis used it to kill people.
As a general rule, whenever you turn to your version of ‘morality’ to undermine someone’s logical argument you are showing your hand (as not being interested in the truth).
Bill Gates is apparently agnostic as well, for the second (?) biggest donation ever made.
Im not taking a side on this little arguement, but Jacob posted an arguement against atheists, and the two examples of counter-evidence given were about agnostics. Did I miss something?
Those of us who do take either side generally count agnostics as atheists. Atheists do so due to a Russell’s Teapot, empiricist-type attitude (and the political advantages of counting the more polite members of a tribe).
The replies are a bit narrowly and inappropriately focussed, considering how universally bad Jacob’s post was. (I can go through it more thoroughly if you think that this would be worth while.)
I can only guess that xandam is a fan of Warren Buffett, so that a reference to donations by atheists (of some sort or other) caught his eye.
I don’t see why anybody bothered, really, there is a more than adequate rebuttal in the comments themselves.
Most poignant: who’s responsibility is it to define a deity? The believer or the nonbeliever?
The crux of the Jewish Philospher’s argument is that atheists have trouble defining “god”, yet why in the world would they be expected to define something they don’t believe in? Do I have to know all the major and minor Roman deities in order to not believe in them? Of course not, the idea is silly. Jewish Philosopher certainly doesn’t believe in them, yet I doubt he knows them all. By his own argument, how can he possibly not believe in them either?
The arguments sound intelligent on the surface, but it doesn’t take a whole lot of questioning before you realize they are silly and illogical (primarily ad hominem, followed closely by the straw men).