you can find God killing the first-born male children of Egypt to convince an unelected Pharaoh to release slaves who logically could have been teleported out of the country. An Orthodox Jew is most certainly familiar with this episode
I’ve seen Yudkowsky make this point in a couple places (why bother inflicting mass infanticide etc. etc. when you’re presumably omnipotent and could teleport everyone to safety) and it makes me blink, something about the argument feels off. Are there cases in the scriptures where God teleports large numbers of people large distances? I get, and vehemently agree with, the point being made here (you can’t deny that in this and many other stories, God had more humane alternatives available, and knowingly opted for a crueler one) but unless there’s a clear precedent for mass teleportation, this specific argument seems to strawman the religious belief a little.
It seems to me a strawman only from the religious perspective.
Those in the faith want to apply constraints sometimes, but not other times, and the way these constraints are selected seems quite arbitrary to a non-believer. So why make an ark to save its inhabitants from a flood—why not just have all those who perish die by miracle? If the Jews are to annihilate the tribe of Amalek, isn’t it more efficient and easier to just have Amalek die by divine decree...in other words, drop dead?
Rather, the concept of a religion sets up a relationship between God and people. And just like you ask you spouse or child (or sister, etc.) to do something for you when you could have just done it yourself, because you want to use it as a means of establishing and maintaining a relationship, so too, religion was crafted to establish and maintain a relationship between man and God. So even if one doesn’t believe in God, that person can understand why the people who do believe in any given religion make up a God that requires interaction and dedication and participation of the people, rather than just have everything miraculously happen.
Which is why, once again, I sense that the truth of religion is a better way to argue than the morality angle.
I’ve seen Yudkowsky make this point in a couple places (why bother inflicting mass infanticide etc. etc. when you’re presumably omnipotent and could teleport everyone to safety) and it makes me blink, something about the argument feels off. Are there cases in the scriptures where God teleports large numbers of people large distances? I get, and vehemently agree with, the point being made here (you can’t deny that in this and many other stories, God had more humane alternatives available, and knowingly opted for a crueler one) but unless there’s a clear precedent for mass teleportation, this specific argument seems to strawman the religious belief a little.
It seems to me a strawman only from the religious perspective.
Those in the faith want to apply constraints sometimes, but not other times, and the way these constraints are selected seems quite arbitrary to a non-believer. So why make an ark to save its inhabitants from a flood—why not just have all those who perish die by miracle? If the Jews are to annihilate the tribe of Amalek, isn’t it more efficient and easier to just have Amalek die by divine decree...in other words, drop dead?
Rather, the concept of a religion sets up a relationship between God and people. And just like you ask you spouse or child (or sister, etc.) to do something for you when you could have just done it yourself, because you want to use it as a means of establishing and maintaining a relationship, so too, religion was crafted to establish and maintain a relationship between man and God. So even if one doesn’t believe in God, that person can understand why the people who do believe in any given religion make up a God that requires interaction and dedication and participation of the people, rather than just have everything miraculously happen.
Which is why, once again, I sense that the truth of religion is a better way to argue than the morality angle.