Two large differences with Marxism and volk-Marxism is that rights are attributed to individuals rather than groups, and that emphasis on freedom from government interference rather than the “right” to goodies from the government.
Strangely enough, this fragment of the declaration, out of context, appears to enable a Marxist revolution as easily as any other, and without much of a stretch: if one assumes that the current Governments are acting as merely enablers and administrators of a corporate power that would stand between them and their rights to Life (nationalized healthcare, the right to the minimum amount of resources to survive whether you want to work or not), Liberty (job protection, safety nets, elimination of censorship and surveillance, not being discriminated from jobs because of race, creed, sexual life, or having children), and the pursuit of Happiness (depending on whose definition, it might involve minimizing time spent working, assuming your job doesn’t provide you with happiness, and maximizing the time spent with one’s family, or doing other stuff one actually likes to do, including non-remunerated but actual, tiring, productive work). I guess we should praise the Founding Fathers for the foersight they put in their work, and having made it as flexible as it is.
That said, it is indeed sad how doctrinal Marxism has shown an absolutely deplorable disregard for the rights and interests of anyone who wasn’t a proletarian. Luckily, democratist, egalitarian movements have predated and outlived Marxism, being born of a sensibility that is beyond mere memetic and mimetic propagation.
By the way. what is volk-Marxism, for that matter? A search in google mostly turns out the blog you linked to, Youtube comments, and some right-wing blogs. It does not seem to be a very widespread word… could you allay my suspicions that it isn’t a buzzword? (I don’t say this in a spirit of mockery, I am genuinely curious).
that’s probably a larger component than you’d care to admit
I’d like you to source the priors that allow you to assess such a probability. As a Muslim, and someone who was in close contact with those movements throughout, I do not recall a single source phrasing the conflict in religious terms.
the Islamization of society
What does that entail, exactly, and why is this a bad thing? I’m not assuming it is a good or bad thing, I just want to know why you think it would be.
the effect of the revolution in Egypt has been to make the government much more Islamic fundamentalist.
Typical case of reversed stupidity. As I think I have already mentioned somewhere on this thread, you will observe that once people believe themselves free of the yokes of their oppressors, and their oppressors’ agents, the same people will tend to feel attracted to said oppressors’ designated enemies (regardless of the details of the nature of said enmity, or its truth beyond rhetorics). In the Wars of Religion, it was Protestantism, in the Cold War, it was the USSR, and in The War on Terror, well, it’s the guys with the beards advocating the return to an idealized, pure past, and the rights of the common man against the foreign oppressor, again: they’re just wearing a different hat.
the way Europeans (at least everyone to the left of Geert Wilders) responds to riots by Muslim youth is to officially give Islamic organizations more influence
Maybe applying the right-left label here is a mistake: maybe it’s a “left wing” thing in Britain, but in France it’s more of a “right wing” thing: the French left has a bit of a vendetta against religion in any way shape or form, and thinks the “goodies” of the Goverment (and its funds) shouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole.
Strangely enough, this fragment of the declaration, out of context, appears to enable a Marxist revolution as easily as any other, and without much of a stretch:
Only in the sense that any text can be interpreted to mean anything with enough “interpretation”, as you proceed to do in the next paragraph. Also I shown mention that Jefferson broke with what one might call “orthodox Lockeanism” by substituting “pursuit of happiness” for “property”.
elimination of censorship and surveillance
Marxists tend to be all for censorship and surveillance as long as they’re the ones doing the censoring and surveilling.
By the way. what is volk-Marxism, for that matter?
A term for the Marxist-dervied/inspired memes that Eric Raymond discusses in the blog post I linked to above.
A term for the Marxist-dervied/inspired memes that Eric Raymond discusses in the blog post I linked to above.
Yes, I know, I have read that article in full, but I still didn’t understand the delimitations of that definition.
Only in the sense that any text can be interpreted to mean anything with enough “interpretation”, as you proceed to do in the next paragraph.
You seem to imply that my interpretation wasn’t legitimate.
Marxists tend to be all for censorship and surveillance as long as they’re the ones doing the censoring and surveilling.
However, I suppose all power units, be they political, economical, or otherwise, will try to get their hands on as much information as they can get away with, while denying it to others. They will also be hypocritically outraged that other power units censor and suveil them. Hardly something endemic to Marxism, regretfully enough. One would argue that the ultimate elimination of censorship and surveilance is simply the complete empowerment of the general public to censor and surveil everyone else: all your words and actions are known to everyone, and no-one dares step out of line. Truly a Tyranny of the Public, if the Public isn’t memetically equipped to resist the temptation.
In case you thought otherwise, I am not suggesting the American Consitution or the Declaration of Independence are tweakable to accomodate leftism. More the opposite: that a leftism that respects individual rights can be Consitution-compliant.
You seem to imply that my interpretation wasn’t legitimate.
Well, yes. I particularly object to your redefinition of the word “liberty”.
liberty (job protection, safety nets, elimination of censorship and surveillance, not being discriminated from jobs because of race, creed, sexual life, or having children)
pursuit of Happiness (depending on whose definition, it might involve minimizing time spent working, assuming your job doesn’t provide you with happiness, and maximizing the time spent with one’s family, or doing other stuff one actually likes to do, including non-remunerated but actual, tiring, productive work)
Also notice that it says “pursuit of Happiness” and simply “Happiness”, i.e., the government shouldn’t get in your way of pursuing happiness but isn’t obliged actively assist you.
he government shouldn’t get in your way of pursuing happiness but isn’t obliged actively assist you.
Why, yes, what I meant to say there was that the government should enable you to pursue happiness in any way you choose, by guaranteeing your liberty to choose who to work for, what to work at, and how much you work. To be precise, the freedom to do whatever you want with your very limited time on this earth (I think people will still end up working just as much, when offered this freedom, unless they deliberately want to starve en masse, among other losses of comfort). The government isn’t actually helping you be happy in any particular way, they just make sure you are able to pursue whatever would make you happy.
Of course, that’s not Marxism: Marx would have said that “from each in accordance with their capacity, to each according tot their necessity”, which I think is utterly dumb: who’s going to decide how much ouput one is capable of, or where one’s needs stop?
Of course, if your notion of happiness is, say, to be someone’s slave, the government shouldn’t get in the way of you pursuing that. I’d be curious to see how many people do choose slavery over freedom.
Anyway, the Constitution forbids the Government to get in the way of your happiness, it doesn’t forbid it to make that pursuit easier for you, unless that gets in the way of your happiness. But then you could just reject their help, right?
Why, yes, what I meant to say there was that the government should enable you to pursue happiness in any way you choose, by guaranteeing your liberty to choose who to work for, what to work at, and how much you work. To be precise, the freedom to do whatever you want with your very limited time on this earth (I think people will still end up working just as much, when offered this freedom, unless they deliberately want to starve en masse, among other losses of comfort). The government isn’t actually helping you be happy in any particular way,
Yes it is. It’s forcing the employer to hire you.
Anyway, the Constitution forbids the Government to get in the way of your happiness, it doesn’t forbid it to make that pursuit easier for you, unless that gets in the way of your happiness.
Strangely enough, this fragment of the declaration, out of context, appears to enable a Marxist revolution as easily as any other, and without much of a stretch: if one assumes that the current Governments are acting as merely enablers and administrators of a corporate power that would stand between them and their rights to Life (nationalized healthcare, the right to the minimum amount of resources to survive whether you want to work or not), Liberty (job protection, safety nets, elimination of censorship and surveillance, not being discriminated from jobs because of race, creed, sexual life, or having children), and the pursuit of Happiness (depending on whose definition, it might involve minimizing time spent working, assuming your job doesn’t provide you with happiness, and maximizing the time spent with one’s family, or doing other stuff one actually likes to do, including non-remunerated but actual, tiring, productive work). I guess we should praise the Founding Fathers for the foersight they put in their work, and having made it as flexible as it is.
That said, it is indeed sad how doctrinal Marxism has shown an absolutely deplorable disregard for the rights and interests of anyone who wasn’t a proletarian. Luckily, democratist, egalitarian movements have predated and outlived Marxism, being born of a sensibility that is beyond mere memetic and mimetic propagation.
By the way. what is volk-Marxism, for that matter? A search in google mostly turns out the blog you linked to, Youtube comments, and some right-wing blogs. It does not seem to be a very widespread word… could you allay my suspicions that it isn’t a buzzword? (I don’t say this in a spirit of mockery, I am genuinely curious).
I’d like you to source the priors that allow you to assess such a probability. As a Muslim, and someone who was in close contact with those movements throughout, I do not recall a single source phrasing the conflict in religious terms.
What does that entail, exactly, and why is this a bad thing? I’m not assuming it is a good or bad thing, I just want to know why you think it would be.
Typical case of reversed stupidity. As I think I have already mentioned somewhere on this thread, you will observe that once people believe themselves free of the yokes of their oppressors, and their oppressors’ agents, the same people will tend to feel attracted to said oppressors’ designated enemies (regardless of the details of the nature of said enmity, or its truth beyond rhetorics). In the Wars of Religion, it was Protestantism, in the Cold War, it was the USSR, and in The War on Terror, well, it’s the guys with the beards advocating the return to an idealized, pure past, and the rights of the common man against the foreign oppressor, again: they’re just wearing a different hat.
Maybe applying the right-left label here is a mistake: maybe it’s a “left wing” thing in Britain, but in France it’s more of a “right wing” thing: the French left has a bit of a vendetta against religion in any way shape or form, and thinks the “goodies” of the Goverment (and its funds) shouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole.
Only in the sense that any text can be interpreted to mean anything with enough “interpretation”, as you proceed to do in the next paragraph. Also I shown mention that Jefferson broke with what one might call “orthodox Lockeanism” by substituting “pursuit of happiness” for “property”.
Marxists tend to be all for censorship and surveillance as long as they’re the ones doing the censoring and surveilling.
A term for the Marxist-dervied/inspired memes that Eric Raymond discusses in the blog post I linked to above.
Yes, I know, I have read that article in full, but I still didn’t understand the delimitations of that definition.
You seem to imply that my interpretation wasn’t legitimate.
However, I suppose all power units, be they political, economical, or otherwise, will try to get their hands on as much information as they can get away with, while denying it to others. They will also be hypocritically outraged that other power units censor and suveil them. Hardly something endemic to Marxism, regretfully enough. One would argue that the ultimate elimination of censorship and surveilance is simply the complete empowerment of the general public to censor and surveil everyone else: all your words and actions are known to everyone, and no-one dares step out of line. Truly a Tyranny of the Public, if the Public isn’t memetically equipped to resist the temptation.
In case you thought otherwise, I am not suggesting the American Consitution or the Declaration of Independence are tweakable to accomodate leftism. More the opposite: that a leftism that respects individual rights can be Consitution-compliant.
Well, yes. I particularly object to your redefinition of the word “liberty”.
Also notice that it says “pursuit of Happiness” and simply “Happiness”, i.e., the government shouldn’t get in your way of pursuing happiness but isn’t obliged actively assist you.
Why, yes, what I meant to say there was that the government should enable you to pursue happiness in any way you choose, by guaranteeing your liberty to choose who to work for, what to work at, and how much you work. To be precise, the freedom to do whatever you want with your very limited time on this earth (I think people will still end up working just as much, when offered this freedom, unless they deliberately want to starve en masse, among other losses of comfort). The government isn’t actually helping you be happy in any particular way, they just make sure you are able to pursue whatever would make you happy.
Of course, that’s not Marxism: Marx would have said that “from each in accordance with their capacity, to each according tot their necessity”, which I think is utterly dumb: who’s going to decide how much ouput one is capable of, or where one’s needs stop?
Of course, if your notion of happiness is, say, to be someone’s slave, the government shouldn’t get in the way of you pursuing that. I’d be curious to see how many people do choose slavery over freedom.
Anyway, the Constitution forbids the Government to get in the way of your happiness, it doesn’t forbid it to make that pursuit easier for you, unless that gets in the way of your happiness. But then you could just reject their help, right?
Yes it is. It’s forcing the employer to hire you.
Or gets in the way of someone else’s freedom.