It sounds like part of what Submitter B is complaining about is lack of respect. The guys she dated didn’t respect her intellect enough to believe assertions she made about her internal experiences. I suspect this is a dearth of respect that no quantity of friendliness can remedy.
That’s a good interpretation, but I wonder if status is a simpler lens. Defining people and their traits is a high-status thing; the guy retorting that she’s a thinker moves power from her to him in a way that suggesting wouldn’t.
Respect also seems subjective; I have basically stopped stating opinions around a friend whose rationality I do not respect because I don’t think discussing contentious subjects with them is a good use of either of our times. If they say that they’re a good judge of character, and I can think of three counterexamples, I’ll only state those counterexamples if I respect them enough to think they can handle it.
I also wonder about how much respect is subject-specific, and how much it’s global. I can easily imagine someone who I trust when it comes to mathematics but don’t trust when it comes to introspection.
If they say that they’re a good judge of character, and I can think of three counterexamples, I’ll only state those counterexamples if I respect them enough to think they can handle it.
This made me think of something irrelevant to your post, but relevant to the topic. I’ve been told that women are socialized not to overtly disagree with or otherwise oppose men. (this usually comes up in the context of careful date non-refusals) I tend to interpret such things as vaguely insulting, along the lines of saying I can’t handle the truth. (or refusal)
Is this interpretation shared by anyone here? What do the women here think of it?
Perhaps I should update to interpret it as “I don’t know if you can handle the truth and I can’t take the chance.” I guess that’s easier to swallow, at least for strangers.
More generally, I think that if you focus on a single interpretation of someone’s motives when you don’t have a lot of information, and the interpretation makes you angry, then you’re probably engaging in an emotional habit. I admit I’m mostly generalizing from one example on this.
I’ve been told that women are socialized not to overtly disagree with or otherwise oppose men.
Avoiding overt disagreements is solid advice for anyone who wants to be well-liked, because they are often a social cost to the disagreer, and primarily benefit the person they’re disagreeing with.
It’s not clear to me that the advice to not overtly disagree with men is as specific as it sounds, since it seems like overt female-female disagreements are also discouraged. To the extent that it is specific, I do suspect it is due to the physical risks involved.
That’s a good interpretation, but I wonder if status is a simpler lens. Defining people and their traits is a high-status thing; the guy retorting that she’s a thinker moves power from her to him in a way that suggesting wouldn’t.
Respect also seems subjective; I have basically stopped stating opinions around a friend whose rationality I do not respect because I don’t think discussing contentious subjects with them is a good use of either of our times. If they say that they’re a good judge of character, and I can think of three counterexamples, I’ll only state those counterexamples if I respect them enough to think they can handle it.
I also wonder about how much respect is subject-specific, and how much it’s global. I can easily imagine someone who I trust when it comes to mathematics but don’t trust when it comes to introspection.
This made me think of something irrelevant to your post, but relevant to the topic. I’ve been told that women are socialized not to overtly disagree with or otherwise oppose men. (this usually comes up in the context of careful date non-refusals) I tend to interpret such things as vaguely insulting, along the lines of saying I can’t handle the truth. (or refusal)
Is this interpretation shared by anyone here? What do the women here think of it?
I agree it’s insulting.
I also believe that when people are rationally frightened of a group, the fear can take generations to fade even when conditions get better.
Perhaps I should update to interpret it as “I don’t know if you can handle the truth and I can’t take the chance.” I guess that’s easier to swallow, at least for strangers.
That sounds like an improvement.
More generally, I think that if you focus on a single interpretation of someone’s motives when you don’t have a lot of information, and the interpretation makes you angry, then you’re probably engaging in an emotional habit. I admit I’m mostly generalizing from one example on this.
Avoiding overt disagreements is solid advice for anyone who wants to be well-liked, because they are often a social cost to the disagreer, and primarily benefit the person they’re disagreeing with.
It’s not clear to me that the advice to not overtly disagree with men is as specific as it sounds, since it seems like overt female-female disagreements are also discouraged. To the extent that it is specific, I do suspect it is due to the physical risks involved.