First, consciousness is only relative to a viewer. If you’re alone, the viewer must be yourself.
Second, under this interpretation, consciousness is not equal to self awareness. Concisely, self awareness is when you project consciousness onto yourself. In principle, you could project consciousness onto something else without projecting it onto yourself. More concretely, when you predict your own actions by modelling your self as a (possibly constrained) utility-maximizer, you are projecting consciousness on your self.
Obviously, a lack of other people projecting consciousness on you cannot change anything about you. But even alone, you can still project consciousness on your self. You can bargain with yourself, see for example slippery hyperbolic discounting.
First, consciousness is only relative to a viewer.
Is that a fact?
In principle, you could project consciousness onto something else without projecting it onto yourself. More concretely, when you predict your own actions by modelling your self as a (possibly constrained) utility-maximizer, you are projecting consciousness on your self.
As before, what makes no sense read literally, but can be read charitably if “agency” is substituted for “consciousness”.
Second, under this interpretation, consciousness is not equal to self awareness
Looks like it’s equal to agency. But theoretical novelty doesn’t consist in changing the meaning of a word.
If we’re going the game theory route, there’s a natural definition for consciousness: something which is being modeled as a game-theoretic agent is “conscious”.
So, yes, I’m trying to equate consciousness with agency.
Anyway, I think you’re highlighting a very valuable point: agency is not equivalent to self-awareness. Then again, it’s not at all clear that consciousness is equivalent to self awareness, as Eli pointed out in the comment which began this whole thread. Here, I am trying to dissolve consciousness, or at least progress in that direction. If consciousness were exactly equivalent to self awareness, then that would be it: there would be no more dissolving to be done. Self awareness can be measured, and can be tracked though developmental stages in humans.
I think part of value of saying “consciousness = projected agency” is that it partially explains why consciousness and self awareness seem so closely linked, though different. If you have a black-box utility-maximizer model available for modelling others, it seems intuitively likely that you’d use it to model yourself as well, leading directly to self awareness. This even leads to a falsifiable prediction: children should begin to model their own minds around the same time they begin to model other minds. They should be able to accurately answer counterfactual questions about their own actions at around the same time that they acquire a theory of mind.
I don’t have to maintain that consciousness is no more or less than self awareness to assert that self awareness us part of consciousness,but not part of agency.
Self awareness mat be based on the same mechanisms as the ability to model external agents, and arrive at the same time....but it us misleading ti call consciousness a projected quality, like beauty in the eye if the beholder.
So, if no one projects consciousness in me, does my consciousness...my self awareness.. just switch off?
First, consciousness is only relative to a viewer. If you’re alone, the viewer must be yourself.
Second, under this interpretation, consciousness is not equal to self awareness. Concisely, self awareness is when you project consciousness onto yourself. In principle, you could project consciousness onto something else without projecting it onto yourself. More concretely, when you predict your own actions by modelling your self as a (possibly constrained) utility-maximizer, you are projecting consciousness on your self.
Obviously, a lack of other people projecting consciousness on you cannot change anything about you. But even alone, you can still project consciousness on your self. You can bargain with yourself, see for example slippery hyperbolic discounting.
Is that a fact?
As before, what makes no sense read literally, but can be read charitably if “agency” is substituted for “consciousness”.
Looks like it’s equal to agency. But theoretical novelty doesn’t consist in changing the meaning of a word.
From my original comment:
So, yes, I’m trying to equate consciousness with agency.
Anyway, I think you’re highlighting a very valuable point: agency is not equivalent to self-awareness. Then again, it’s not at all clear that consciousness is equivalent to self awareness, as Eli pointed out in the comment which began this whole thread. Here, I am trying to dissolve consciousness, or at least progress in that direction. If consciousness were exactly equivalent to self awareness, then that would be it: there would be no more dissolving to be done. Self awareness can be measured, and can be tracked though developmental stages in humans.
I think part of value of saying “consciousness = projected agency” is that it partially explains why consciousness and self awareness seem so closely linked, though different. If you have a black-box utility-maximizer model available for modelling others, it seems intuitively likely that you’d use it to model yourself as well, leading directly to self awareness. This even leads to a falsifiable prediction: children should begin to model their own minds around the same time they begin to model other minds. They should be able to accurately answer counterfactual questions about their own actions at around the same time that they acquire a theory of mind.
I don’t have to maintain that consciousness is no more or less than self awareness to assert that self awareness us part of consciousness,but not part of agency.
Self awareness mat be based on the same mechanisms as the ability to model external agents, and arrive at the same time....but it us misleading ti call consciousness a projected quality, like beauty in the eye if the beholder.