Is there some other element of fun conversation that I might be missing?
What’s the fun element in board game called “go”? I find that particular game really fun to play, and really interesting, but it seems rather pointless to try to argue if it’s “objectively” interesting or fun, or even what specific aspects make it fun and interesting to me. It just is.
You can replace “go” with any fun and entertaining thing that you do. How would you defend that your fun thing against someone who came along and wanted to know, just like you do now, why and how is that fun thing really fun?
Is it because they are too credulous, and haven’t developed an instinctive skepticism of every new idea that they hear? Or do they just not take the other person’s words seriously (i.e., “in one ear, out the other”)?
Also, willingness to humor the claim other makes for the sake of conversation isn’t on that list, as it’s neither “not taking other seriously” nor “being too credulous”.
What’s the fun element in board game called “go”? I find that particular game really fun to play, and really interesting, but it seems rather pointless to try to argue if it’s “objectively” interesting or fun, or even what specific aspects make it fun and interesting to me. It just is.
If other people find some activity fun but I don’t, it might be that I’m doing it wrong, and with the correct understanding I can make it fun for myself.
On the other hand it might be that others only find it fun because they’re being insufficiently reflective. Maybe if they understood better what they’re really doing, they wouldn’t find it fun anymore, and would spend the time furthering some other goal instead (hopefully one that better matches my own purposes, like working to answer scientific/philosophical questions that I’m interested in, or reducing existential risk :)
I’d like to understand my values, and human values in general, both for the purpose of FAI theory, and to satisfy my philosophical interests. “Fun” is obviously a part of that.
Maybe if they understood better what they’re really doing, they wouldn’t find it fun anymore, and would spend the time furthering some other goal instead (hopefully one that better matches my own purposes, like working to answer scientific/philosophical questions that I’m interested in, or reducing existential risk)
I have this weird problem, based on the way my utility function seems to be set up—I want people to do what they really enjoy, even at the cost of them not working on my favorite projects.
So, on the one hand, I would like people to be sufficiently reflective to figure out what they really enjoy doing. On the other hand, if reflection just destroys people’s existing, flawed sources of fun without providing an alternative source of fun, then I wouldn’t want to encourage it.
Imagine a 50-something small business owner with a community college education—maybe he runs a fast food restaurant, or a bike repair shop—who really likes his local sports team. He goes to or watches most of their home games with a few other friends/fans and gets really excited about it and, on balance, has a lot of fun. If I could somehow motivate him to reflect on what professional spectator sports are like, he might not enjoy it as much, or at all.
But what good would that do him? Wouldn’t he be equally likely to plow his new-found surplus energy into, say, watching TV, as to suddenly discover existentialist risks? Even if he did work on existential risks, is there any reason to think that he’d enjoy it? I feel like differences in what people choose to do for fun might reflect differing theories about what is fun, and not just a failure to reflect on one’s activities. Even if the masses’ theories about what is fun are philosophically indefensible, they may nevertheless be real descriptions about what the masses find to be fun, and so I have trouble justifying an attempt to take away that fun without letting go of my commitment to egalitarianism.
I think it would depend on how his pleasure in spectator sports is eliminated. Does he simply find out that spectator sports are pointless, or does he find out that his leisure time can have more to it than spectator sports?
I assume it would be the former, no? Aren’t most people aware that they have a choice of hobbies, even if they don’t realize why/that the one they’ve chosen is particularly banal?
What’s the fun element in board game called “go”? I find that particular game really fun to play, and really interesting, but it seems rather pointless to try to argue if it’s “objectively” interesting or fun, or even what specific aspects make it fun and interesting to me. It just is.
You can replace “go” with any fun and entertaining thing that you do. How would you defend that your fun thing against someone who came along and wanted to know, just like you do now, why and how is that fun thing really fun?
http://lesswrong.com/lw/1yz/levels_of_communication/
Also, willingness to humor the claim other makes for the sake of conversation isn’t on that list, as it’s neither “not taking other seriously” nor “being too credulous”.
If other people find some activity fun but I don’t, it might be that I’m doing it wrong, and with the correct understanding I can make it fun for myself.
On the other hand it might be that others only find it fun because they’re being insufficiently reflective. Maybe if they understood better what they’re really doing, they wouldn’t find it fun anymore, and would spend the time furthering some other goal instead (hopefully one that better matches my own purposes, like working to answer scientific/philosophical questions that I’m interested in, or reducing existential risk :)
I’d like to understand my values, and human values in general, both for the purpose of FAI theory, and to satisfy my philosophical interests. “Fun” is obviously a part of that.
I have this weird problem, based on the way my utility function seems to be set up—I want people to do what they really enjoy, even at the cost of them not working on my favorite projects.
So, on the one hand, I would like people to be sufficiently reflective to figure out what they really enjoy doing. On the other hand, if reflection just destroys people’s existing, flawed sources of fun without providing an alternative source of fun, then I wouldn’t want to encourage it.
Imagine a 50-something small business owner with a community college education—maybe he runs a fast food restaurant, or a bike repair shop—who really likes his local sports team. He goes to or watches most of their home games with a few other friends/fans and gets really excited about it and, on balance, has a lot of fun. If I could somehow motivate him to reflect on what professional spectator sports are like, he might not enjoy it as much, or at all.
But what good would that do him? Wouldn’t he be equally likely to plow his new-found surplus energy into, say, watching TV, as to suddenly discover existentialist risks? Even if he did work on existential risks, is there any reason to think that he’d enjoy it? I feel like differences in what people choose to do for fun might reflect differing theories about what is fun, and not just a failure to reflect on one’s activities. Even if the masses’ theories about what is fun are philosophically indefensible, they may nevertheless be real descriptions about what the masses find to be fun, and so I have trouble justifying an attempt to take away that fun without letting go of my commitment to egalitarianism.
I think it would depend on how his pleasure in spectator sports is eliminated. Does he simply find out that spectator sports are pointless, or does he find out that his leisure time can have more to it than spectator sports?
I assume it would be the former, no? Aren’t most people aware that they have a choice of hobbies, even if they don’t realize why/that the one they’ve chosen is particularly banal?
I don’t think most people are good at breaking habits to find what they’d be enthusiastic about.