I recently read of a certain theist that he had defeated Christopher Hitchens in a debate (severely so; this was said by atheists). And so I wrote at once to the Bloggingheads folks and asked if they could arrange a debate. This seemed like someone I wanted to test myself against. Also, it was said by them that Christopher Hitchens should have watched the theist’s earlier debates and been prepared, so I decided not to do that, because I think I should be able to handle damn near anything on the fly, and I desire to learn whether this thought is correct; and I am willing to risk public humiliation to find out. Note that this is not self-handicapping in the classic sense—if the debate is indeed arranged (I haven’t yet heard back), and I do not prepare, and I fail, then I do lose those stakes of myself that I have put up; I gain information about my limits; I have not given myself anything I consider an excuse for losing.
I don’t expect I can handle ‘anything’ domain-unspecifically on the fly. I thought I should be able to handle arguments William Lane Craig made, or tactics he used, on the fly. The entire article is about “Don’t guess your strength when you can just test yourself”, especially if the test is cheap, and the world doesn’t end if I lose a debate to Craig. In any case, Craig declined to debate me, which makes me wonder if he’s actually just careful in his choice of debating opponents.
I think this is sufficiently out-of-context that I object to the redacted quote and to its interpretation. The original quote is about finding out your ability level by using cheap/noncatastrophic tests.
I assumed you didn’t mean literally anything. But I’m also assuming you know very little about debate tactics, is that correct? If so, the sentence I quoted seems to imply you seem to think you should be able to handle quite a wide range of things on the fly.
Craig is selective about who he debates, but mostly he seems to be optimizing for how big of names his opponents are. As much as I respect your work, Eliezer, you simply aren’t as big of a name as Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens (who’ve debate Craig) or Jerry Coyne (who recently declined a debate invitation from Craig).
I can suspect him of cowardice when he refuses to debate Jeffrey Jay Lowder (who like Craig and unlike most of Craig’s opponents, has a background in college debate), but unless you’ve got some amazing debate performances under your belt that I don’t know about, I don’t think fear of losing is the reason he refused to debate you.
But I’m also assuming you know very little about debate tactics, is that correct? If so, the sentence I quoted seems to imply you seem to think you should be able to handle quite a wide range of things on the fly.
Nnnoo, it implies I thought I should be able to handle a wide range of events inside a public conversation (about religion) on the fly. This is a tiny slice of human endeavor.
I probably wouldn’t say something similar nowadays, and I worry whether that might be due to decrease of energy rather than calibration of confidence.
Filling in some details of the quote, since I was involved...
I was one of the atheists who said that (theist) William Lane Craig beat (atheist) Christopher Hitchens soundly, here and here. Also, I doubt the “Bloggingheads folks” said that Hitchens should have prepared more — that’s what I and perhaps other public atheists said.
Also, if someone doesn’t already believe that debates are mostly about debating skill (e.g. using the clock) rather than argument quality, a quick review of how Craig routinely dominates atheists in debates, while arguing not just for theism but also for Christian particularism, might change one’s mind.
Thanks for the link, I had never seen that debate before. I agree with the assessment that Hitchens was rambling and incoherent. Most of Craig’s points could have had very simple, one-sentence refutations.
A rather out-of-context takeout of:
I don’t expect I can handle ‘anything’ domain-unspecifically on the fly. I thought I should be able to handle arguments William Lane Craig made, or tactics he used, on the fly. The entire article is about “Don’t guess your strength when you can just test yourself”, especially if the test is cheap, and the world doesn’t end if I lose a debate to Craig. In any case, Craig declined to debate me, which makes me wonder if he’s actually just careful in his choice of debating opponents.
I think this is sufficiently out-of-context that I object to the redacted quote and to its interpretation. The original quote is about finding out your ability level by using cheap/noncatastrophic tests.
I assumed you didn’t mean literally anything. But I’m also assuming you know very little about debate tactics, is that correct? If so, the sentence I quoted seems to imply you seem to think you should be able to handle quite a wide range of things on the fly.
Craig is selective about who he debates, but mostly he seems to be optimizing for how big of names his opponents are. As much as I respect your work, Eliezer, you simply aren’t as big of a name as Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens (who’ve debate Craig) or Jerry Coyne (who recently declined a debate invitation from Craig).
I can suspect him of cowardice when he refuses to debate Jeffrey Jay Lowder (who like Craig and unlike most of Craig’s opponents, has a background in college debate), but unless you’ve got some amazing debate performances under your belt that I don’t know about, I don’t think fear of losing is the reason he refused to debate you.
Nnnoo, it implies I thought I should be able to handle a wide range of events inside a public conversation (about religion) on the fly. This is a tiny slice of human endeavor.
I probably wouldn’t say something similar nowadays, and I worry whether that might be due to decrease of energy rather than calibration of confidence.
Thinking is metabolically expensive I guess(?)
Not necessarily.
Filling in some details of the quote, since I was involved...
I was one of the atheists who said that (theist) William Lane Craig beat (atheist) Christopher Hitchens soundly, here and here. Also, I doubt the “Bloggingheads folks” said that Hitchens should have prepared more — that’s what I and perhaps other public atheists said.
Also, if someone doesn’t already believe that debates are mostly about debating skill (e.g. using the clock) rather than argument quality, a quick review of how Craig routinely dominates atheists in debates, while arguing not just for theism but also for Christian particularism, might change one’s mind.
Thanks for the link, I had never seen that debate before. I agree with the assessment that Hitchens was rambling and incoherent. Most of Craig’s points could have had very simple, one-sentence refutations.