This is about as convincing as a scarecrow. Maybe I’m commiting some kinda taboo not trying to handle a strawman like a a real person but to me the mental exercise of trying faulty thought experiments is damaging when you can just point to the fallacy and move on.
I’d be interested in someone trying to create the proposed simulation without the presumptive biases. Would AI models given only pain and relief with such a dial to set themselves come to such equilibrium? I think obviously not. I don’t hear anyone arguing that’s wrong just that it’s a misunderstanding of the preposition and if that’s the case what the hell is the point? Are we talking about AI behavior or aren’t we? Are we not talking about if or not a technological singularity is going to be “good or bad” across arbitrary non naturalistic/human centric ethics?
If it’s not those things the preface must be changed, if it is those things the logic is flawed.
Quick mod note: I generally prefer not to “tone police” or similar and if a user is saying something substantive, forgive a little tartness in how they speak. That said, I’m leery of that when it’s off the bat in a user’s first submissions. Consider this me frowning a little at you.
(Raemon notes that his recollection is that the author of this post in particular dislikes tone policing (not exactly the write term, but good enough), but I’m still leaving this comment to maintain norms for the site a whole, even if Jessicata might not mind.)
Enjoy the echo chamber. I won’t bother you people, I’ll just unsubscribe from the newsletter, it hasn’t been very good lately. Been a subscriber to that for years, this was the first post bad enough to get me to respond. If you don’t like that I’m “tart” then you’re soft and soft is not the position to be in for dealing with reason and logic it’s a very hard thing and often you come to conclusions you don’t like.
This is a forum. People just post stuff. Sometimes it’s good. Sometimes it’s written like your comments. Are you mostly objecting to discussion of abstract game theory? Or are you objecting to discussion of abstract game theory without making explicit that abstract game theory is not exactly the same as real life game theory? that’s a common issue I’ve seen criticized and agree has been a problem for anyone who interacts with game theory, and the criticisms I’ve seen sound like your comment—taking issue with the abstractness. If so, it’s fair to point out this is abstract and not fully grounded. Game theory often uses mathematical objects we call “games” which are formalized, isolated versions of things that happen in real life, and which do indeed have strange divergences from real life as a result of the way they get isolated; properly mapping out how the abstract game differs is often in fact a chore. it seems reasonable to request that they be more clearly marked.
But none of that really changes that you were, in fact, rather rude. Shrug. It ain’t an echo chamber if your criticism isn’t going to be deleted :)
I’ll be explicitly clear I referenced straw man because I am taking fault with a logical fallacy. I’m taking fault with the mode/structure of presentation more then the mode of reasoning [be it theoretical or practical]. It was presented as a conversation, feeling very much like someone had just created a straw man to do battle with so that they could communicate something that they had already preconceived...
Now if it was just a post here on the form somewhere off in space that I didn’t have to think about I would have never cared but I am a newsletter subscriber and it was the newsletter for that cycle.
That is the only content I get from this website and I expected it to be well curated. It was not and now I’m seriously considering unsubscribing from the newsletter. I am only here to feel out the community and determine if or not it is worth my time to continue reading a newsletter that is gone down in quality reliably in the last months.
Alright, fair enough. I’m curious what other resources you subscribe to—are there any you’d recommend as being higher quality? I doubt the mods will penalize you for giving other useful ai newsletters or paper feeds or etc. I’m curious what sort of research you typically seek out.
The number one greatest resource I could possibly recommend at this exact moment is LinkedIn. 6 to 8 months ago that was not the truth today it is I don’t know how long it’ll still be the truth but if you get “Linked In” to companies that are dealing with whatever stem or probably any other thing you’re interested in and the employees of those companies tend to share all kinds of interesting material. Obviously some sources much better than others but it’s like a source of sources, like this is a forum so it’s a source of sources. That’s probably the ideal thing to look for going forward should time, as it does, change circumstances.
This is about as convincing as a scarecrow. Maybe I’m commiting some kinda taboo not trying to handle a strawman like a a real person but to me the mental exercise of trying faulty thought experiments is damaging when you can just point to the fallacy and move on.
I’d be interested in someone trying to create the proposed simulation without the presumptive biases. Would AI models given only pain and relief with such a dial to set themselves come to such equilibrium? I think obviously not. I don’t hear anyone arguing that’s wrong just that it’s a misunderstanding of the preposition and if that’s the case what the hell is the point? Are we talking about AI behavior or aren’t we? Are we not talking about if or not a technological singularity is going to be “good or bad” across arbitrary non naturalistic/human centric ethics?
If it’s not those things the preface must be changed, if it is those things the logic is flawed.
Quick mod note: I generally prefer not to “tone police” or similar and if a user is saying something substantive, forgive a little tartness in how they speak. That said, I’m leery of that when it’s off the bat in a user’s first submissions. Consider this me frowning a little at you.
(Raemon notes that his recollection is that the author of this post in particular dislikes tone policing (not exactly the write term, but good enough), but I’m still leaving this comment to maintain norms for the site a whole, even if Jessicata might not mind.)
Enjoy the echo chamber. I won’t bother you people, I’ll just unsubscribe from the newsletter, it hasn’t been very good lately. Been a subscriber to that for years, this was the first post bad enough to get me to respond. If you don’t like that I’m “tart” then you’re soft and soft is not the position to be in for dealing with reason and logic it’s a very hard thing and often you come to conclusions you don’t like.
This is a forum. People just post stuff. Sometimes it’s good. Sometimes it’s written like your comments. Are you mostly objecting to discussion of abstract game theory? Or are you objecting to discussion of abstract game theory without making explicit that abstract game theory is not exactly the same as real life game theory? that’s a common issue I’ve seen criticized and agree has been a problem for anyone who interacts with game theory, and the criticisms I’ve seen sound like your comment—taking issue with the abstractness. If so, it’s fair to point out this is abstract and not fully grounded. Game theory often uses mathematical objects we call “games” which are formalized, isolated versions of things that happen in real life, and which do indeed have strange divergences from real life as a result of the way they get isolated; properly mapping out how the abstract game differs is often in fact a chore. it seems reasonable to request that they be more clearly marked.
But none of that really changes that you were, in fact, rather rude. Shrug. It ain’t an echo chamber if your criticism isn’t going to be deleted :)
I’ll be explicitly clear I referenced straw man because I am taking fault with a logical fallacy. I’m taking fault with the mode/structure of presentation more then the mode of reasoning [be it theoretical or practical]. It was presented as a conversation, feeling very much like someone had just created a straw man to do battle with so that they could communicate something that they had already preconceived...
Now if it was just a post here on the form somewhere off in space that I didn’t have to think about I would have never cared but I am a newsletter subscriber and it was the newsletter for that cycle.
That is the only content I get from this website and I expected it to be well curated. It was not and now I’m seriously considering unsubscribing from the newsletter. I am only here to feel out the community and determine if or not it is worth my time to continue reading a newsletter that is gone down in quality reliably in the last months.
Alright, fair enough. I’m curious what other resources you subscribe to—are there any you’d recommend as being higher quality? I doubt the mods will penalize you for giving other useful ai newsletters or paper feeds or etc. I’m curious what sort of research you typically seek out.
The number one greatest resource I could possibly recommend at this exact moment is LinkedIn. 6 to 8 months ago that was not the truth today it is I don’t know how long it’ll still be the truth but if you get “Linked In” to companies that are dealing with whatever stem or probably any other thing you’re interested in and the employees of those companies tend to share all kinds of interesting material. Obviously some sources much better than others but it’s like a source of sources, like this is a forum so it’s a source of sources. That’s probably the ideal thing to look for going forward should time, as it does, change circumstances.