You can’t have conversations about terminal values.
Sure you can. You can explain yours to the other guy, and likely discover something about them yourself in the process.
I agree about the possibility of discussing the likely outcomes of a policy divorced from the valuation of the policy. But the valuation provides both the motivation for the discussion and the punchline to it.
If it is the policies themselves that you loathe, how is a progressive supposed to argue for them?
He argues by showing me how I am mistaken or not fully aware of things entailed by the policy that I would value positively.
Once the conversation is about that that is all it’s about.
I suppose for some people. But since I think the valuations are an important part of the conversation, if those people can’t do valuations and objective analysis, they won’t be very fruitful partners in the discussion.
Both sides ought to lower the stakes.
Nope. Both sides should be as clear as they can about what the stakes are. I think that’s what’s missing. Here are my values. Here’s why I loathe your policies. Once put on the table, I think there is some hope of setting aside for moments and doing the objective analysis. But until honestly confronted, I’d expect the “objective” discussion to be polluted by both attempts to insert them, and interpretations on the look out for them.
I don’t see any differences in values
There aren’t, necessarily. But I think statistically, there are.
I see Progressives not understanding how incentives work.
I don’t think they care to understand. It’s not rocket science. They are motivated by something other than achieving outcomes. Some people want to do something. Some people want to be something. I think they tend toward the latter.
Sure you can. You can explain yours to the other guy, and likely discover something about them yourself in the process.
I agree about the possibility of discussing the likely outcomes of a policy divorced from the valuation of the policy. But the valuation provides both the motivation for the discussion and the punchline to it.
He argues by showing me how I am mistaken or not fully aware of things entailed by the policy that I would value positively.
I suppose for some people. But since I think the valuations are an important part of the conversation, if those people can’t do valuations and objective analysis, they won’t be very fruitful partners in the discussion.
Nope. Both sides should be as clear as they can about what the stakes are. I think that’s what’s missing. Here are my values. Here’s why I loathe your policies. Once put on the table, I think there is some hope of setting aside for moments and doing the objective analysis. But until honestly confronted, I’d expect the “objective” discussion to be polluted by both attempts to insert them, and interpretations on the look out for them.
There aren’t, necessarily. But I think statistically, there are.
I don’t think they care to understand. It’s not rocket science. They are motivated by something other than achieving outcomes. Some people want to do something. Some people want to be something. I think they tend toward the latter.