“But upon reflection, I strongly suspect that I would feel no barrier to praising Gödel, Escher, Bach even if I weren’t doing anything much interesting with my life.”
You don’t feel yourself to be in status competition with Hofstadter do you? Or E.T. Jaynes, for that matter. Think about effusively praising Nick Bostrom as the last best hope for the survival of humane values, instead.
“I’m hoping in particular that someone used to feel this way—shutting down an impulse to praise someone else highly, or feeling that it was cultish to praise someone else highly—and then had some kind of epiphany after which it felt, not allowed, but rather, perfectly normal.”
I’ve always disliked generic praise, of the form ‘X is great,’ but find it easy enough to talk about objective standing within a population (e.g. ‘in the Y percentile for math capabilities’), including the population of people I know (top Z% of my close acquaintances for social skills). The first leaves a bad taste of uncriticality, but I’m fine with saying that someone is probably even one in a million or one in a hundred million with respect to some formula aggregating across several features. I can’t recall an epiphany in which I radically changed in this regard.
You don’t feel yourself to be in status competition with Hofstadter do you? Or E.T. Jaynes, for that matter. Think about effusively praising Nick Bostrom as the last best hope for the survival of humane values, instead.
Point taken. But that example isn’t generic status competition, it’s role competition. Are so many people calling PG a cult leader really in role competition with him? For what? Are there so many commenters at this site in role competition with me? I think you have a valid point here about a factor that would make admiration directed at another seem bad, but can it plausibly be that particular factor which is at work here?
(Edited to make clear the difference between status competition and role competition.)
They’re socially engaged with him and his web community. Status competition doesn’t have to mean preparation for direct overthrow, it can also mean efforts to reduce the size of status gaps relative to current superiors. Demonstrating or admitting inferiority to someone in the immediate social hierarchy pushes the low lower, while successfully tearing down a superior raises the tearer while lowering the torn, even if only marginally.
There is an essay about this by Pavel Curtis, creator of LambdaMOO—he would frequently find that newcomers would respond to his perceived status by being exaggeratedly rude to his character, showing off that they were prepared to stand up to the Man, so long as of course they could do it in perfect safety under the cover of anonymity.
Most players on LambdaMOO, for example, upon first encountering my wizard
player, treat me with almost exaggerated deference and respect. I am frequently called ‘sir’ and players often apologize for ‘wasting’ my time. A significant minority, however, appear to go to great lengths to prove that they
are not impressed by my office or power, speaking to me quite bluntly and
making demands that I assist them with their problems using the system,
sometimes to the point of rudeness.
“But upon reflection, I strongly suspect that I would feel no barrier to praising Gödel, Escher, Bach even if I weren’t doing anything much interesting with my life.”
You don’t feel yourself to be in status competition with Hofstadter do you? Or E.T. Jaynes, for that matter. Think about effusively praising Nick Bostrom as the last best hope for the survival of humane values, instead.
“I’m hoping in particular that someone used to feel this way—shutting down an impulse to praise someone else highly, or feeling that it was cultish to praise someone else highly—and then had some kind of epiphany after which it felt, not allowed, but rather, perfectly normal.”
I’ve always disliked generic praise, of the form ‘X is great,’ but find it easy enough to talk about objective standing within a population (e.g. ‘in the Y percentile for math capabilities’), including the population of people I know (top Z% of my close acquaintances for social skills). The first leaves a bad taste of uncriticality, but I’m fine with saying that someone is probably even one in a million or one in a hundred million with respect to some formula aggregating across several features. I can’t recall an epiphany in which I radically changed in this regard.
Point taken. But that example isn’t generic status competition, it’s role competition. Are so many people calling PG a cult leader really in role competition with him? For what? Are there so many commenters at this site in role competition with me? I think you have a valid point here about a factor that would make admiration directed at another seem bad, but can it plausibly be that particular factor which is at work here?
(Edited to make clear the difference between status competition and role competition.)
They’re socially engaged with him and his web community. Status competition doesn’t have to mean preparation for direct overthrow, it can also mean efforts to reduce the size of status gaps relative to current superiors. Demonstrating or admitting inferiority to someone in the immediate social hierarchy pushes the low lower, while successfully tearing down a superior raises the tearer while lowering the torn, even if only marginally.
Great point, and I think that the “competition”, if there is competition, isn’t with PG or EY but with everyone else.
There is an essay about this by Pavel Curtis, creator of LambdaMOO—he would frequently find that newcomers would respond to his perceived status by being exaggeratedly rude to his character, showing off that they were prepared to stand up to the Man, so long as of course they could do it in perfect safety under the cover of anonymity.
Found it: Mudding: Social Phenomena in Text-Based Virtual Realities
‘Exagerrated rudeness’ could also be a product of the greater internet dickwad theory.
Attitudes toward MUD wiz teams are also part politics, since the leaders are often dictators of the local environment.