Well, I hate to say something against your post here, because I quite agree with it all.
Except there is one Mind Projection Fallacy of which I question whether it was done on purpose.
The fallacy where you are reducing the poem to it’s parts.
The majority of poetry is metaphor. All of the specific examples in that poem are metaphors for the feeling of majesty. So to the poet, those three examples are quite the same. The poet’s distaste for scientific reduction isn’t that everything is explained away, it’s that explaining something reduces it’s perceived majesty.
Now, to us reductionists, it is the opposite. Explaining something increases it’s perceived majesty. The more explanation required (literally required), the more majestic it is. The difference is a simple alignment of the feeling of majesty. Whether it be aligned to interpretation, or to perception.
So yes, believers in things will likely read the poem and presume that the poet means that rainbows are explained away. Most believers in things certainly react that way, including you. But that was not the intent of the poem (presuming the poet was not a hack). In modern times, the only reason that explanation of the poem is available to us is because we already know that mythical creatures (including ghosts) don’t exist. The only reason that explanation of the poem is available to us is because most non-reductionists are actually reductionists, having a strong, deep belief that many things have been explained away by reduction.
However, back when mythical creatures like gnomes and haunts were imagined, it was not without a reason. Never assume that people are referring to mystical creatures and magic when they talk of their perception of reality. They are simply using metaphor to explain something their brain cannot grasp at the moment of perception. Most of the time, they don’t even know they’re doing it, and so believe the metaphor to be literal. But just because they use the wrong words, that doesn’t mean their perception is false, only that their interpretation of their perception is false. The haunts in the air and the gnomes in the mine are still there, they’re just not called “haunts” and “gnomes”.
So, like the rainbow, haunts and gnomes were not explained away. All three were just explained. What was explained away was the interpretation. What was explained was the perception.
I just realized that this is precisely why I think LessWrong will fail in the end. And why I have been unable to help.
From what I have seen, beyond all of the awesome information on how to use one’s thoughts appropriately, LessWrong suggests that people attempt to interpret things correctly. I strongly disagree with that ideal. Interpreting something correctly is, in the end, just as bad as interpreting something wrongly; because both are equally different from perceiving something.
This is why people call science and reductionism a religion. Interpreting something and assigning it a truth value is trying to assign a truth value to an interpretation. Yeah, that’s an obvious sentence, but what I mean is that interpretations are never true. Sure, interpretations can mimic or look like the truth, but only the original perception is true. And perception is true regardless of how it is interpreted. The difference between common religion and the religion hidden in science is a simple matter of different interpretations. Interpretations that are less wrong are more useful only because it’s easier to extract information of perceptions from them. This is extremely useful, but only as a transition state designed for communication purposes (including communication with oneself).
For those of you who might read this and think “but directly perceiving something is impossible, as all perceptions are filtered and interpreted by the mind.” So? That never stopped me. Try interpreting things in multiple, opposing ways simultaneously. That’s how I started learning how to differentiate between perception and interpretation. Also, try considering that the interpretation doesn’t exist, and so doesn’t actually matter. Eventually, all interpretations become useful, as all have information of the original perception hidden within them. Trying to set one’s mind on interpretations hinders one’s ability to perceive. The less interpretations one believes, the more one is able to perceive. I am speaking from direct experience, and also observation of tens of thousands of conversations, and hundreds of individuals over time.
Please. This is an important step toward sentiency. Hell, it’s the definition of sentience.
Please try to be sentient. LessWrong is my greatest hope of a sizable community capable of sentiency. Yes, I am literally begging you to attain sentience. It’s really lonely up here.
Please. This is an important step toward sentiency. Hell, it’s the definition of sentience. Please try to be sentient. LessWrong is my greatest hope of a sizable community capable of sentiency. Yes, I am literally begging you to attain sentience. It’s really lonely up here.
You are lonely up there because you are slightly insane (and, alas, in a way that isn’t a sufficiently shared cultural insanity for it to form a group bonding role for you).
Interpreting something correctly is, in the end, just as bad as interpreting something wrongly; because both are equally different from perceiving something.
I stopped reading right here. It sounded the crackpot alarm for me.
Well, I hate to say something against your post here, because I quite agree with it all. Except there is one Mind Projection Fallacy of which I question whether it was done on purpose. The fallacy where you are reducing the poem to it’s parts.
The majority of poetry is metaphor. All of the specific examples in that poem are metaphors for the feeling of majesty. So to the poet, those three examples are quite the same. The poet’s distaste for scientific reduction isn’t that everything is explained away, it’s that explaining something reduces it’s perceived majesty.
Now, to us reductionists, it is the opposite. Explaining something increases it’s perceived majesty. The more explanation required (literally required), the more majestic it is. The difference is a simple alignment of the feeling of majesty. Whether it be aligned to interpretation, or to perception.
So yes, believers in things will likely read the poem and presume that the poet means that rainbows are explained away. Most believers in things certainly react that way, including you. But that was not the intent of the poem (presuming the poet was not a hack). In modern times, the only reason that explanation of the poem is available to us is because we already know that mythical creatures (including ghosts) don’t exist. The only reason that explanation of the poem is available to us is because most non-reductionists are actually reductionists, having a strong, deep belief that many things have been explained away by reduction.
However, back when mythical creatures like gnomes and haunts were imagined, it was not without a reason. Never assume that people are referring to mystical creatures and magic when they talk of their perception of reality. They are simply using metaphor to explain something their brain cannot grasp at the moment of perception. Most of the time, they don’t even know they’re doing it, and so believe the metaphor to be literal. But just because they use the wrong words, that doesn’t mean their perception is false, only that their interpretation of their perception is false. The haunts in the air and the gnomes in the mine are still there, they’re just not called “haunts” and “gnomes”.
So, like the rainbow, haunts and gnomes were not explained away. All three were just explained. What was explained away was the interpretation. What was explained was the perception.
I just realized that this is precisely why I think LessWrong will fail in the end. And why I have been unable to help.
From what I have seen, beyond all of the awesome information on how to use one’s thoughts appropriately, LessWrong suggests that people attempt to interpret things correctly. I strongly disagree with that ideal. Interpreting something correctly is, in the end, just as bad as interpreting something wrongly; because both are equally different from perceiving something.
This is why people call science and reductionism a religion. Interpreting something and assigning it a truth value is trying to assign a truth value to an interpretation. Yeah, that’s an obvious sentence, but what I mean is that interpretations are never true. Sure, interpretations can mimic or look like the truth, but only the original perception is true. And perception is true regardless of how it is interpreted. The difference between common religion and the religion hidden in science is a simple matter of different interpretations. Interpretations that are less wrong are more useful only because it’s easier to extract information of perceptions from them. This is extremely useful, but only as a transition state designed for communication purposes (including communication with oneself).
For those of you who might read this and think “but directly perceiving something is impossible, as all perceptions are filtered and interpreted by the mind.” So? That never stopped me. Try interpreting things in multiple, opposing ways simultaneously. That’s how I started learning how to differentiate between perception and interpretation. Also, try considering that the interpretation doesn’t exist, and so doesn’t actually matter. Eventually, all interpretations become useful, as all have information of the original perception hidden within them. Trying to set one’s mind on interpretations hinders one’s ability to perceive. The less interpretations one believes, the more one is able to perceive. I am speaking from direct experience, and also observation of tens of thousands of conversations, and hundreds of individuals over time.
Please. This is an important step toward sentiency. Hell, it’s the definition of sentience. Please try to be sentient. LessWrong is my greatest hope of a sizable community capable of sentiency. Yes, I am literally begging you to attain sentience. It’s really lonely up here.
You are lonely up there because you are slightly insane (and, alas, in a way that isn’t a sufficiently shared cultural insanity for it to form a group bonding role for you).
Gonk. Gonk.
I stopped reading right here. It sounded the crackpot alarm for me.