I’ll start with these comments are not well thought out or organized in the written statements. Much more of a reaction (hopefully not too “knee-jerky”)
I think a number of other comments have touched on similar thoughts as I have. What I struggle a bit with, and it might be purely how things are expressed, is the end goal bit. I really don’t know how I would evaluate Maximum Well-being. Part of that is I see all the actions of getting there to be dynamic (actions) while the goal seems to be a final state.
But even if I think of the end goal in a more dynamic setting (max well-being today, what I think that should be tomorrow or next year) I still struggle a bit with how I would even know I achieved that goal.
That might be me though. It is true that I am pretty happy with where I am with my life, I certainly don’t have any significant material worries (no debt, good income, good savings and net worth). I don’t have to concern myself with any type of real budgeting my life. I am not an overly social person but do have a group of people I interact with socially and can turn to for emotional/mental support. I have a long term relationship but not without its challenges so have the feeling I am needed and supporting.
Still, I would not say I have reached some maximum; I still want. This is true even though I can see myself as successful, or what others would say is successful, in my efforts. Once I get to a certain point of success I start getting bored and look for other things.
So for me the end goal is in fact an ongoing set of doing new things. But I don’t see that I could evaluate any “max” based on something like number of new efforts that were achieved to the level I was interested in reaching.
Another aspect that I wondered about was that bit about journeys versus end points—enjoy the ride as much as the destination type view. That doesn’t seem to fit the model described. So there may be more interaction between end goal and process of reaching the end goal than suggested in the model. I”m not sure if the “when life gives you lemons make lemon aide” fits in this area or deserves separate consideration but I think it should fit somewhere—and for me would be important as I do value new experiences that cross my path and interrupt any routine, and sometimes point me in a completely new direction.
Last, regardless of whether or not I consider the end goal as some static or dynamic “equilibrium” I’ve achieve how do I know if it is a local or global one. Or, what weight should I place on the mistakes or paths I’ve taken in the past that have perhaps locked me out of other paths I would like to be on at a later point in life. How would we evaluate things, or even should we, in a retrospective view?
As a side note, not sure if this will fit in your thinking or if you can even locate the article (I don’t know if it was ever published), but one of the econ profs at GMU presented a paper at a brown-bag lunch back in the earlyish 1990s about nonconvex utility function and addiction. It was a case of local versus global maximization but one could argue perfectly efficient (per economic criteria) and rational. The prof was David Levy. I think the question about how one might check if they have convex or non-convex utility functions might be an interesting personal exploration.
Thank you so much! I’m exploring here, so thank you for your input.
Still, I would not say I have reached some maximum; I still want.
Oh, definitely! I mean “maximum” in the sense of increasing well-being, not in the sense that there is a limit.
Another aspect that I wondered about was that bit about journeys versus end points
This fits incredibly well into SDT, but I agree that I did not specify it in the article. One of the most competence-satisfying things is optimal challenges, challenges where you’re stretching your abilities but still likely to succeed.
How would we evaluate things, or even should we, in a retrospective view?
I think this is a much larger causal question on counterfactuals, and it’s often very hard/impossible to meaningfully do that. But we can still make clear answers to prospective questions, and to specific retrospective questions: If a choice A is more likely than B to satisfy competence, relatedness and autonomy, then it is the better choice.
To conclude, I agree with basically everything you stated. The goal is no the goal in the to-do sense, rather in the compass sense. Was that a satisfactory explanation? :-)
I’ll start with these comments are not well thought out or organized in the written statements. Much more of a reaction (hopefully not too “knee-jerky”)
I think a number of other comments have touched on similar thoughts as I have. What I struggle a bit with, and it might be purely how things are expressed, is the end goal bit. I really don’t know how I would evaluate Maximum Well-being. Part of that is I see all the actions of getting there to be dynamic (actions) while the goal seems to be a final state.
But even if I think of the end goal in a more dynamic setting (max well-being today, what I think that should be tomorrow or next year) I still struggle a bit with how I would even know I achieved that goal.
That might be me though. It is true that I am pretty happy with where I am with my life, I certainly don’t have any significant material worries (no debt, good income, good savings and net worth). I don’t have to concern myself with any type of real budgeting my life. I am not an overly social person but do have a group of people I interact with socially and can turn to for emotional/mental support. I have a long term relationship but not without its challenges so have the feeling I am needed and supporting.
Still, I would not say I have reached some maximum; I still want. This is true even though I can see myself as successful, or what others would say is successful, in my efforts. Once I get to a certain point of success I start getting bored and look for other things.
So for me the end goal is in fact an ongoing set of doing new things. But I don’t see that I could evaluate any “max” based on something like number of new efforts that were achieved to the level I was interested in reaching.
Another aspect that I wondered about was that bit about journeys versus end points—enjoy the ride as much as the destination type view. That doesn’t seem to fit the model described. So there may be more interaction between end goal and process of reaching the end goal than suggested in the model. I”m not sure if the “when life gives you lemons make lemon aide” fits in this area or deserves separate consideration but I think it should fit somewhere—and for me would be important as I do value new experiences that cross my path and interrupt any routine, and sometimes point me in a completely new direction.
Last, regardless of whether or not I consider the end goal as some static or dynamic “equilibrium” I’ve achieve how do I know if it is a local or global one. Or, what weight should I place on the mistakes or paths I’ve taken in the past that have perhaps locked me out of other paths I would like to be on at a later point in life. How would we evaluate things, or even should we, in a retrospective view?
As a side note, not sure if this will fit in your thinking or if you can even locate the article (I don’t know if it was ever published), but one of the econ profs at GMU presented a paper at a brown-bag lunch back in the earlyish 1990s about nonconvex utility function and addiction. It was a case of local versus global maximization but one could argue perfectly efficient (per economic criteria) and rational. The prof was David Levy. I think the question about how one might check if they have convex or non-convex utility functions might be an interesting personal exploration.
Thank you so much! I’m exploring here, so thank you for your input.
Oh, definitely! I mean “maximum” in the sense of increasing well-being, not in the sense that there is a limit.
This fits incredibly well into SDT, but I agree that I did not specify it in the article. One of the most competence-satisfying things is optimal challenges, challenges where you’re stretching your abilities but still likely to succeed.
I think this is a much larger causal question on counterfactuals, and it’s often very hard/impossible to meaningfully do that. But we can still make clear answers to prospective questions, and to specific retrospective questions: If a choice A is more likely than B to satisfy competence, relatedness and autonomy, then it is the better choice.
To conclude, I agree with basically everything you stated. The goal is no the goal in the to-do sense, rather in the compass sense. Was that a satisfactory explanation? :-)