Future Multi-Weirdtopia in a style remotely analoguous to Platonic Utopia.
Govermental Multi-Weirdtopia
By this point people have achieved immortality and no longer die, which is made possible by whatever future means—not the point. Anyway there’s a Global/Solar/Galactic goverment which sets a constitution that at least contains
Bans all weirdtopias from manipulating existing data of citizens
All weirdtopias retain flexibility of sub-goverment
Citizens must not get imprisoned within weirdtopias and must be deported at certain intervals
And the idea is that in the Multi-Weirdtopia there are several different weirdtopias which you can choose to live in, and choosing to do so may or may not include the option of temporarily blocking pre-existing information of citizens. So these types of society sort of transform into fantasy reality—in the case that this is required—with the exception that it’s also real and not just fantasy. (In a way similar to secret science)
Sexual Weirdtopia
So for an example you would have a local goverment with in a single weirdtopia in which Sex would be banned and infringment of this law would lead to exile into the desert.(which would actually just lead to deporting from this particular weirdtopia—but you wouldn’t know that) For citizens choosing to live with in this weirdtopia they would have certain portion of prior knowledge blocked to this fantasy/reality seem real. Anyway back to the point.
So people would live in this particular weirdtopia thinking that sex is banned and that no one actually has sex , except you would break the law and have sex anyway, which would create a thrill of getting caught. There would be SexPolice (Yeah I know) trying to catch criminals and once they would succesfully do that the culprit would get exiled and also get his/her blocked memories back with the possibility of rejoining this particular weird topia or any other.
Also I’m talking about a complete society in which the participants are the members of the society. The rules have simply been modified a little with this addition. The other weirdtopias of the multi-weirdtopia wouldn’t need to be similar.
Well I guess this is not a good comment because this example not so much about real socities, rather just fantastic reality about how to pass the time. Does it make me look weird that my only example is sexual? Just joking :)
I’ve gotta say, I would spend the whole time worried that I had signed up to a memory-altering ’topia.
In other news, I’d like to see more wierdtopias that are possible with current levels of technology. It’s one thing to abandon money if you’re post-scarcity, it’s quite another to build Functional Communism.
It’s an interesting and fairly original concept at first glance… but the implications are not just scary, they’re outright hellish. Can you imagine waking up every day with a sense of existential paranoia about which of your memories are stolen/detained by the government, who you were before, if there is an outside world, if you can ever leave, what life in other places might be like? I’d snap very quickly indeed.
Dude, I’ve been obsessed with Philip K. Dick’s works and ideas for the last 3-4 years. To be honest, by now this thought is so familiar to me that much of the fear has drained out of it, and I’m just pondering how to use decision theory or sympathetic magic to one’s advantage in such a case :)
Of course, if I had strong evidence, I’d look at it in a much more urgent light—that’s why I’m saying I’d snap if it was my default interpretation of this life.
Oh, yeah. I can see it if there was always a “tell”, but you had to actively seek it out; that way people who want ignorance could have it and I could keep my peace of mind.
(But what if that’s just to throw me off? If I ever escaped the Matrix I would spend the rest of my life convinced Zion was another trick. The machines tell elegant lies.)
Incidentally, I ended up with much the same attitude through lucid dreaming; by the time I discovered PKD I was used to it.
I can see it if there was always a “tell”, but you had to actively seek it out
But how would you know—and, more importantly, stay aware over long periods—that there’s a “tell” in the first place, and that it’s something legitimate and of existential importance?
Well, since this existential panic is itself caused by observing Matrixes (Matrices?) in the environment, you would just make sure to publicise the fact that they all have this “tell”. If you don’t want people to know there’s even a possibilty they’re in an illusion then obviously this idea wont work.
How could it be publicized while not coming across as a hoax/delusion, or a dragon-in-the-garage meme that’s not supposed to be taken seriously? If the hint is subtle enough not to break one person’s suspension of disbelief, it’s likely subtle enough to elude some others entirely and leave them trapped in a world they loathe.
“Behold, our latest product: a dream machine! This allows you to experience various scenarios as real, untroubled by memories of renting one. If you are in a dream machine simulation, the back of your head will have a warning message; visible only to you. If you ever suspect you may be in such a machine, we suggest using mirrors to check the back of your head at the first available opportunity.”
So damn near everyone wouldn’t be able to resist checking (how could you?), then after it’s confirmed they’d have to lose the memory somehow, at which point they’d immediately be tempted to check again. They’d spend more time being anxious to check or aware of the simulation than living it out.
Presumably people who would sign up for such a thing wouldn’t want to know. I don’t really understand that, but...
I don’t think there’s a way to get rid of the niggling feeling that this could all be a lie without making it for real, and even then it could be a clever lie.
Future Multi-Weirdtopia in a style remotely analoguous to Platonic Utopia.
Govermental Multi-Weirdtopia
By this point people have achieved immortality and no longer die, which is made possible by whatever future means—not the point. Anyway there’s a Global/Solar/Galactic goverment which sets a constitution that at least contains
Bans all weirdtopias from manipulating existing data of citizens
All weirdtopias retain flexibility of sub-goverment
Citizens must not get imprisoned within weirdtopias and must be deported at certain intervals
And the idea is that in the Multi-Weirdtopia there are several different weirdtopias which you can choose to live in, and choosing to do so may or may not include the option of temporarily blocking pre-existing information of citizens. So these types of society sort of transform into fantasy reality—in the case that this is required—with the exception that it’s also real and not just fantasy. (In a way similar to secret science)
Sexual Weirdtopia So for an example you would have a local goverment with in a single weirdtopia in which Sex would be banned and infringment of this law would lead to exile into the desert.(which would actually just lead to deporting from this particular weirdtopia—but you wouldn’t know that) For citizens choosing to live with in this weirdtopia they would have certain portion of prior knowledge blocked to this fantasy/reality seem real. Anyway back to the point.
So people would live in this particular weirdtopia thinking that sex is banned and that no one actually has sex , except you would break the law and have sex anyway, which would create a thrill of getting caught. There would be SexPolice (Yeah I know) trying to catch criminals and once they would succesfully do that the culprit would get exiled and also get his/her blocked memories back with the possibility of rejoining this particular weird topia or any other.
Also I’m talking about a complete society in which the participants are the members of the society. The rules have simply been modified a little with this addition. The other weirdtopias of the multi-weirdtopia wouldn’t need to be similar.
Well I guess this is not a good comment because this example not so much about real socities, rather just fantastic reality about how to pass the time. Does it make me look weird that my only example is sexual? Just joking :)
I’ve gotta say, I would spend the whole time worried that I had signed up to a memory-altering ’topia.
In other news, I’d like to see more wierdtopias that are possible with current levels of technology. It’s one thing to abandon money if you’re post-scarcity, it’s quite another to build Functional Communism.
It’s an interesting and fairly original concept at first glance… but the implications are not just scary, they’re outright hellish. Can you imagine waking up every day with a sense of existential paranoia about which of your memories are stolen/detained by the government, who you were before, if there is an outside world, if you can ever leave, what life in other places might be like? I’d snap very quickly indeed.
Maybe you’re already there.
EDIT: Sorry, couldn’t resist
Dude, I’ve been obsessed with Philip K. Dick’s works and ideas for the last 3-4 years. To be honest, by now this thought is so familiar to me that much of the fear has drained out of it, and I’m just pondering how to use decision theory or sympathetic magic to one’s advantage in such a case :)
Of course, if I had strong evidence, I’d look at it in a much more urgent light—that’s why I’m saying I’d snap if it was my default interpretation of this life.
Oh, yeah. I can see it if there was always a “tell”, but you had to actively seek it out; that way people who want ignorance could have it and I could keep my peace of mind.
(But what if that’s just to throw me off? If I ever escaped the Matrix I would spend the rest of my life convinced Zion was another trick. The machines tell elegant lies.)
Incidentally, I ended up with much the same attitude through lucid dreaming; by the time I discovered PKD I was used to it.
But how would you know—and, more importantly, stay aware over long periods—that there’s a “tell” in the first place, and that it’s something legitimate and of existential importance?
Well, since this existential panic is itself caused by observing Matrixes (Matrices?) in the environment, you would just make sure to publicise the fact that they all have this “tell”. If you don’t want people to know there’s even a possibilty they’re in an illusion then obviously this idea wont work.
How could it be publicized while not coming across as a hoax/delusion, or a dragon-in-the-garage meme that’s not supposed to be taken seriously? If the hint is subtle enough not to break one person’s suspension of disbelief, it’s likely subtle enough to elude some others entirely and leave them trapped in a world they loathe.
“Behold, our latest product: a dream machine! This allows you to experience various scenarios as real, untroubled by memories of renting one. If you are in a dream machine simulation, the back of your head will have a warning message; visible only to you. If you ever suspect you may be in such a machine, we suggest using mirrors to check the back of your head at the first available opportunity.”
So damn near everyone wouldn’t be able to resist checking (how could you?), then after it’s confirmed they’d have to lose the memory somehow, at which point they’d immediately be tempted to check again. They’d spend more time being anxious to check or aware of the simulation than living it out.
Presumably people who would sign up for such a thing wouldn’t want to know. I don’t really understand that, but...
I don’t think there’s a way to get rid of the niggling feeling that this could all be a lie without making it for real, and even then it could be a clever lie.