I wonder if the low rating of this post is because people are more touchy about Jews than they are about Christians. People here think it’s fine to criticize Christianity all day. Shouldn’t it be equally acceptable to criticize Judaism? (I criticized both.)
I’m going to put up 4 replies to this comment, in matched pairs for karma balance. If you vote, vote on both comments in a pair. Comment if you found one pair harder to vote on.
ADDED: Wow, the results surprised me. I would have found it hard to upvote “Judaism is stupid”. My brain would direct it, but my finger would protest.
I wonder if the low rating of this post is because people are more touchy about Jews than they are about Christians. People here think it’s fine to criticize Christianity all day. Shouldn’t it be equally acceptable to criticize Judaism? (I criticized both.)
You are probably right. The kind of thinking that implements political correctness does not seem to be particularly compatible with the abstract thought involved in making their disapproval consistent.
For what it is worth I like the post for the content but probably would have enjoyed it slightly more with the original title. I just love provocative irony.
I just wasn’t that interested in the subject matter (didn’t vote up or down) but you do use the word “Jew” a lot. And I’m a little uncomfortable with it as a general term for a way to work around ethical rules.
I understand the point you’re making and I’m not offended but the last couple thousand years of antisemitism might distract from your point.
I see—If people use “Jew” to mean “the agent you need to help you work around problems in your morals”, the negative association bleeds over onto the word “Jew”, even though it’s the Christian (in the money-lending example) who’s committing the error.
Writing is more memorable when you use emotionally-laden terms, but also riskier.
I used the term “Christian” a lot, too; and implied the Christians were the ones at fault. But that wasn’t uncomfortable?
I’m thinking how to reword it so that it doesn’t go flat, but so far nothing comes to mind.
Is there an existing term to refer to the person you use to commit your sins for you? Scapegoat isn’t right. Is there a word for a person hired to operate electric devices for you on the Sabbath?
In looking for the answer to this, I found this absolutely wonderful page explaining different rules about the use of electricity on the Sabbath. Studying it would make an excellent preparation for law school. Here’s a quote:
It is forbidden on the Sabbath to set the alarm of a battery-operated transistorized alarm clock or a wind-up alarm clock even though the alarm was wound before the Sabbath. The reasons are that he is creating sound with an implement built to produce sound and he is temporarily improving the clock. Even if the clock was prepared before the Sabbath, some authorities prohibit this because making noise on the Sabbath is a degradation of the Sabbath unless it is needed in order to perform a mitzvah such as getting up to make it to the synagogue on time. It is however, permitted to close the alarm if his intention is to stop the noise or an other reason, but not if his intention is to save the batteries. This is because it is comparable to dismantling an implement on condition to rebuild it. However, on Yom-Tov it is permitted unless it is an electric clock plugged into the wall outlet. The reason is that high voltage sparks created by opening and closing the alarm when the alarm is to go off may be hot enough to ignite fuel and is consequently in the category of kindling a fire.
So it’s less-offensive to use the term “Shabbos goy”, which logically criticizes Judaism, than to use the term “Jew”, which creates a negative association with Judaism.
Jew is just a really loaded word because it is used by various sorts of supremacists. “Jewish person” can be substituted without any kind of negative connotation.
I’d assume so. I’m only half-Jewish on my dad’s side, and he was brought up in a fairly liberal sect and ditched even that shortly after getting bar mitzvahed and didn’t pass on a Jewish surname—I’m as non-Jewish as one can get while retaining any claim to it at all. So I’m not a proper authority on the subject.
Exactly. Genetics, of course, don’t give a damn whence the Jewishness, and it didn’t inhibit my ability to pick up secondhand culture either except inasmuch as that set of grandparents died when I was a kid, but my point was that it being on my dad’s side makes me “less Jewish” by a relevant metric.
Pardon me Phil, I just balanced both “not-stupid” comments with their respective “stupid” counterparts. This unfortunately means you lose two net karma. But it looks far prettier at 11 all round! ;)
I wonder if the low rating of this post is because people are more touchy about Jews than they are about Christians. People here think it’s fine to criticize Christianity all day. Shouldn’t it be equally acceptable to criticize Judaism? (I criticized both.)
I’m going to put up 4 replies to this comment, in matched pairs for karma balance. If you vote, vote on both comments in a pair. Comment if you found one pair harder to vote on.
ADDED: Wow, the results surprised me. I would have found it hard to upvote “Judaism is stupid”. My brain would direct it, but my finger would protest.
Christianity is stupid.
Judaism is stupid.
You are probably right. The kind of thinking that implements political correctness does not seem to be particularly compatible with the abstract thought involved in making their disapproval consistent.
For what it is worth I like the post for the content but probably would have enjoyed it slightly more with the original title. I just love provocative irony.
I just wasn’t that interested in the subject matter (didn’t vote up or down) but you do use the word “Jew” a lot. And I’m a little uncomfortable with it as a general term for a way to work around ethical rules.
I understand the point you’re making and I’m not offended but the last couple thousand years of antisemitism might distract from your point.
I see—If people use “Jew” to mean “the agent you need to help you work around problems in your morals”, the negative association bleeds over onto the word “Jew”, even though it’s the Christian (in the money-lending example) who’s committing the error.
Writing is more memorable when you use emotionally-laden terms, but also riskier.
I used the term “Christian” a lot, too; and implied the Christians were the ones at fault. But that wasn’t uncomfortable?
I’m thinking how to reword it so that it doesn’t go flat, but so far nothing comes to mind.
Is there an existing term to refer to the person you use to commit your sins for you? Scapegoat isn’t right. Is there a word for a person hired to operate electric devices for you on the Sabbath?
In looking for the answer to this, I found this absolutely wonderful page explaining different rules about the use of electricity on the Sabbath. Studying it would make an excellent preparation for law school. Here’s a quote:
Shabbos goy.
Awesome!
So it’s less-offensive to use the term “Shabbos goy”, which logically criticizes Judaism, than to use the term “Jew”, which creates a negative association with Judaism.
If that’s so, then if you tell people
what they hear are the associations
Got here late—what was the original title?
“Kill the Jews”.
I guess some people are just touchy.
AHAHA! Well done.
Necessary Jews
When I first saw it under that title, before I read the article, I read it as contrasting with “Sufficient Jews” or possibly “Contingent Jews”.
I’m still enjoying imagining what those could possibly mean.
Jew is just a really loaded word because it is used by various sorts of supremacists. “Jewish person” can be substituted without any kind of negative connotation.
Nah. Your word choice is now orthogonal to the usual patterns of antisemitism and you have legitimate cause for making fun.
Is the plural Shabbos goyim?
I’d assume so. I’m only half-Jewish on my dad’s side, and he was brought up in a fairly liberal sect and ditched even that shortly after getting bar mitzvahed and didn’t pass on a Jewish surname—I’m as non-Jewish as one can get while retaining any claim to it at all. So I’m not a proper authority on the subject.
I thought that you’re considered Jewish if your mother was Jewish, and not Jewish if she wasn’t.
That depends on the sect, apparently.
Exactly. Genetics, of course, don’t give a damn whence the Jewishness, and it didn’t inhibit my ability to pick up secondhand culture either except inasmuch as that set of grandparents died when I was a kid, but my point was that it being on my dad’s side makes me “less Jewish” by a relevant metric.
Jack is right that it’s distracting, and Phil is right that it shouldn’t be.
“Henchman” or “cat’s-paw” seem fine to me.
Christianity is stupid.
Christianity is not stupid.
Pardon me Phil, I just balanced both “not-stupid” comments with their respective “stupid” counterparts. This unfortunately means you lose two net karma. But it looks far prettier at 11 all round! ;)
Judaism is not stupid.