I have a shallow read a few posts about it overview of the post-rationality vs rationality debate, but to me it just seems like a semantic debate.
Camp “post-rationalism isn’t a thing” argues that rationality is the art of winning. Therefore any methods that camp “post-rationalism” uses that work better than a similar method used by people in camp “post-rationalism isn’t a thing” is the correct method for all rationalists to use.
The rationalist definition is sort of recursive. If you live the ideology correctly than you should replace worse methods with better ones. If it turns out that bayesian thinking doesn’t produce good(or better than some alternative) results, rationalist dogma says to ditch bayesianism for the new hotness.
Taken to an extreme: in a brute survival context a lot of the current … aesthetics or surface level features of rationalism might have to be abandoned in favour of violence, since that is what survival/winning demands.
But it can’t be that simple or there wouldn’t be a debate so what am I missing?
I believe this is mostly correct, and the missing part is the “post-rationalism” camp saying: but this is only what you say you would do, but you never actually do it. Talking about the nameless virtue of rationality is not the same as actually practicing it. Like, you preach that a map is not the territory, and then you take your Bayesian map and refuse to look at anything else. You don’t even have the ability to seriously consider multiple maps at the same time, a.k.a. the Kegan level 5.
Well, that’s the motte. The bailey is that the “post-rationalism” camp believes they already found the better method, and it’s mysterious, cannot be explained to someone who doesn’t have it already (but the people who have it can recognize each other); it is related to Buddhism, but wise spiritually grownup people of other religious traditions probably also have it, only atheist nerds don’t have it; and it gives you an immediate perception of reality. From their perspective, “rationalists” are just retarded kids. If you don’t believe this, it just proves you’re stupid. (Rationalist: “What?!” Post-rationalist: “Exactly.”)
My preferred answer is that I am at Kegan level 6 (a level so high that Kegan himself didn’t know it existed), so of course the post-rationalists who are mere Kegan level 5 simpletons cannot understand me. Your turn.
I have a shallow read a few posts about it overview of the post-rationality vs rationality debate, but to me it just seems like a semantic debate.
Camp “post-rationalism isn’t a thing” argues that rationality is the art of winning. Therefore any methods that camp “post-rationalism” uses that work better than a similar method used by people in camp “post-rationalism isn’t a thing” is the correct method for all rationalists to use.
The rationalist definition is sort of recursive. If you live the ideology correctly than you should replace worse methods with better ones. If it turns out that bayesian thinking doesn’t produce good(or better than some alternative) results, rationalist dogma says to ditch bayesianism for the new hotness.
Taken to an extreme: in a brute survival context a lot of the current … aesthetics or surface level features of rationalism might have to be abandoned in favour of violence, since that is what survival/winning demands.
But it can’t be that simple or there wouldn’t be a debate so what am I missing?
I believe this is mostly correct, and the missing part is the “post-rationalism” camp saying: but this is only what you say you would do, but you never actually do it. Talking about the nameless virtue of rationality is not the same as actually practicing it. Like, you preach that a map is not the territory, and then you take your Bayesian map and refuse to look at anything else. You don’t even have the ability to seriously consider multiple maps at the same time, a.k.a. the Kegan level 5.
Well, that’s the motte. The bailey is that the “post-rationalism” camp believes they already found the better method, and it’s mysterious, cannot be explained to someone who doesn’t have it already (but the people who have it can recognize each other); it is related to Buddhism, but wise spiritually grownup people of other religious traditions probably also have it, only atheist nerds don’t have it; and it gives you an immediate perception of reality. From their perspective, “rationalists” are just retarded kids. If you don’t believe this, it just proves you’re stupid. (Rationalist: “What?!” Post-rationalist: “Exactly.”)
My preferred answer is that I am at Kegan level 6 (a level so high that Kegan himself didn’t know it existed), so of course the post-rationalists who are mere Kegan level 5 simpletons cannot understand me. Your turn.