I’m curious to what extent this distinction can be mapped to the disagreeable/agreeable spectrum. Also curious if this thing can be generalized to diff kinds of support in general, i.e. conditional/unconditional love. I’m also getting father/mother archetypes vibes from this.
I would expect the Thiel Foundation (central donor of both Leverage and MIRI) to be working more with the patron model and at the same time Thiel is low-agreeableness.
Ah yeah, on second thought the “father” vibe might also be one that is (disagreeably) investing in the agent, not buying their activities, and when you are buying the activity it seems that the disagreeable/agreeable dimension kind of collapses, i.e. it doesn’t matter how the recipient feels about it, they’re just an object.
How about means versus ends? More precisely, I suppose you can turn this binary distinction into a discrete one by saying that while one donor might be supporting your current activities, the next one might be supporting the one-level-up goal that your current activities are pursuing, while the next one might be supporting the two-levels-up goal that your current activities are pursuing, etc.
In other words, different donors might have different levels of tolerance if you pivot. The more fundamentally you change your plans, the more the donor has to be on the “investing in the agent” end of the spectrum to support it.
There’s a school of thought that disagreeable people are important for making a lot of progress and that they are best at creating that progress when they are given freedom.
I think that disagreeable people are more likely to believe that paradigm and thus provide funds in a way that works better for disagreeable people which is the patron model.
I do think that there’s probably a correlation. I think that e.g. high-agreeableness people will tend to be more patron-ish, and low-agreeableness people will tend to be more patron-ish while they are feeling particularly agreeable.
re: father/mother archetypes, interestingly, the conflict my parents are having is over their shared finances/pooled savings; Mom thinks that it should be spent on [herself, my dad, and me and my brother] whereas Dad thinks it should be spent on [whatever either she or he thinks is a good idea] and they had both been proceeding as if the other was doing it their way. When they reviewed a decade of fairly large expenditures, this created H U G E conflict, and feelings of betrayal on both sides.
(Mom feels betrayed because Dad “spent her hard-earned money” on things outside the mission; Dad feels betrayed because Mom is looking at good, moral expenditures and calling them a violation/transgression.)
I’m curious to what extent this distinction can be mapped to the disagreeable/agreeable spectrum. Also curious if this thing can be generalized to diff kinds of support in general, i.e. conditional/unconditional love. I’m also getting father/mother archetypes vibes from this.
I would expect the Thiel Foundation (central donor of both Leverage and MIRI) to be working more with the patron model and at the same time Thiel is low-agreeableness.
Ah yeah, on second thought the “father” vibe might also be one that is (disagreeably) investing in the agent, not buying their activities, and when you are buying the activity it seems that the disagreeable/agreeable dimension kind of collapses, i.e. it doesn’t matter how the recipient feels about it, they’re just an object.
How about means versus ends? More precisely, I suppose you can turn this binary distinction into a discrete one by saying that while one donor might be supporting your current activities, the next one might be supporting the one-level-up goal that your current activities are pursuing, while the next one might be supporting the two-levels-up goal that your current activities are pursuing, etc.
In other words, different donors might have different levels of tolerance if you pivot. The more fundamentally you change your plans, the more the donor has to be on the “investing in the agent” end of the spectrum to support it.
There’s a school of thought that disagreeable people are important for making a lot of progress and that they are best at creating that progress when they are given freedom.
I think that disagreeable people are more likely to believe that paradigm and thus provide funds in a way that works better for disagreeable people which is the patron model.
Seems true. Not sure what update to make from it, though, as I would expect some counterexamples even with a strong correlation.
(Also not actually sure that Thiel is low-agreeableness but I adopt it as a prior going forward since before my prior was ???).
I do think that there’s probably a correlation. I think that e.g. high-agreeableness people will tend to be more patron-ish, and low-agreeableness people will tend to be more patron-ish while they are feeling particularly agreeable.
re: father/mother archetypes, interestingly, the conflict my parents are having is over their shared finances/pooled savings; Mom thinks that it should be spent on [herself, my dad, and me and my brother] whereas Dad thinks it should be spent on [whatever either she or he thinks is a good idea] and they had both been proceeding as if the other was doing it their way. When they reviewed a decade of fairly large expenditures, this created H U G E conflict, and feelings of betrayal on both sides.
(Mom feels betrayed because Dad “spent her hard-earned money” on things outside the mission; Dad feels betrayed because Mom is looking at good, moral expenditures and calling them a violation/transgression.)