I am indeed signed up, having been an Alcor client for 20 years.
Ironically I chose full-body suspension as opposed to so-called neurosuspension (head only) on the theory that the spinal cord and peripheral nervous system might include information useful for reconstruction and recovery. Now it turns out that half of this data will be largely destroyed by the disease. Makes me wonder if I should convert to neuro.
Indeed even the popular (mis)conception of head-only revival wouldn’t be that bad for me, not unlike the state I will have lived in for a while. In fact it would really be better in many ways if I could somehow lose my body once I become paralyzed, since it will be a potential source of pain signals and also a lot of work for caregivers to deal with. But I doubt that the technology is there yet.
I am indeed signed up, having been an Alcor client for 20 years.
That is very, very, very good to hear. Sorry, I had to ask that question first before I knew to say:
I’m sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I wish you the best in staying alive. I congratulate you on the wisdom that you have shown and are showing in making your decisions well and in advance. And may you be a lesson and exemplar to all those other readers who will, in one future world or another, walk a path much like yours.
I’m glad to hear you’re already signed up and already have life insurance. I don’t know what I’d have done if you’d said otherwise. Beat my head against a wall, maybe. I’ve known you for as long as I’ve been part of the transhumanist community I joined as my first step into adulthood.
Oh yeah, I was going to reply to this. I read the article, and it seems like 90% of it is pure cryonics-bashing. Basically just making fun of those transhumanist nuts. The only parts that were really concerning was the part about knocking the tuna can off of Williams’ head with a wrench, and the suggestion that Williams’ will stated that he wanted to be cremated. But it’d be interesting to read the book it referenced—I bet it presents a much fairer view.
Johnson’s trying to sell a book. Alcor has sued him twice and won twice, and I believe his latest book violates a court injunction.
The part about the tuna can and wrench was indeed the only concerning thing, and it would be nice to see an explicit denial from Alcor on this point. But my own reaction can be best summed up as “pics or it didn’t happen”. Johnson has credibility zero, and the only reason I’m assigning non-zero probability, at this point, is because Alcor didn’t explicitly focus in on the wrench and deny the event.
EDIT: Good, they just did deny it explicitly. “In his book and during the Nightline segment, Mr. Johnson claimed he witnessed Alcor staff striking Ted William’s head with a wrench. Mr. Johnson, who was an executive with authority over the procedure in question, also claimed he said nothing about the purported incident when it allegedly occurred nor did he bring it to the attention of any other staff or board member. In fact, multiple individuals verified as documented witnesses to patient transfer procedures state without hesitation that Mr. Johnson’s claims are pure fabrication. Alcor’s internal investigation did not reveal any reports or recollections of any Alcor patient ever being struck by a wrench or any other object, accidentally or otherwise… Johnson’s statements about tissue debris, tuna, and cats are fictionalized accounts crafted for maximum tabloid shock value, as is nearly the entirety of his book. Alcor denies exposing patients to any devices or equipment that are not appropriate for their function, clean, and sterile as required.” Presumably they were finishing up the internal investigation before issuing the denial.
Oh, not sure if you heard about this, but apparently there was some Alcor and CI sponsored research and the result was basically that it’s a really good idea to make arrangements for, well, if anything happens to you to begin being cooled immediately, and actually even better, to have your blood washed out. India ink and rat ( :( ) experiments suggest that being a warm body for even a couple hours is enough to more or less cause effects like thickening blood and so on to more or less prevent any significant amount of cryoprotectant from actually ending up in the brain. (AFAIK, they’re working on updating their suspension protocols based on this info)
An immediate water+ice bath makes a big difference, and immediately washing out the blood makes a HUGE difference.
(At least, such info was presented by the experimenters when I went to the CI general meeting a couple weeks ago. I’m having some trouble finding info this specific research at the moment, though.)
Just figured you probably ought to know this for when you start to be at increased risk, so you may want to look into those experiments and make arrangements with regards to that.
Here’s hoping though that this is all academic and that you won’t actually need this, as it were.
EDIT: IIRC, it was these two that did that research and presented those results.
Refer to case summary A-2435, a recent patient who was able to become the “most expedient cases expedient cases from bedside to cryopreservation procedures that Alcor has ever experienced” by ensuring she was as geographically close to Alcor as possible when preservation became necessary:
Linkrot marches on; the summary is here and the full case report is here. (The former says that A-2435 is Alcor’s 88th patient, the latter the 89th, which is a bit odd.)
To what extent, if any, did your choice of signing up years ago modify the impact of the bad news ?
From a certain point of view, your diagnosis enhances the value of having purchased the cryonics option. You can be reasonably certain that when the end comes it will be predictable and you will be in an environment that makes suspension and transport easier.
Also I imagine that financing suspension with a life insurance policy becomes a different proposition, financially, after you’ve been diagnosed with ALS.
I’ve been putting it off, myself, for a bunch of reasons including the usual of looking like a very long shot and the social stigma, but mostly because at the moment it’s such a US thing and there is so very little guidance to be had if you live elsewhere (I’m in France). Your example is making me rethink that. I suppose I should just fire off an email to Alcor and CI and see what they can tell me.
It was actually extremely reassuring as the reality of the diagnosis sunk in. I was surprised, because I’ve always considered cryonics a long shot. But it turns out that in this kind of situation, it helps tremendously to have reasons for hope, and cryonics provides another avenue for a possibly favorable outcome. That is a good point that my circumstances may allow for a well controlled suspension which could improve my odds somewhat.
You’re right though that with this diagnosis, life insurance is no longer an option. In retrospect I would be better off if I had purchased more life insurance for my family, as well as long term care insurance for myself. Of course, that doesn’t change the considerations which made those seem to be unattractive gambles beforehand.
I think you probably should. There’s no real upside to preserving your body as you say, and there’s a very real cost. (What’s Alcor’s differential? IIRC, it was many thousands of dollars.)
You could direct the excess money somewhere else, like your family (presumably ALS will have a big economic impact on them—treatment expenses, reduced earnings, etc. - even if you live out a natural lifespan). Or you could donate it straight to Alcor: I’m sure they have better things to do with say $20,000 than spend it on freezing some meat that doesn’t need freezing.
Are you signed up for cryonics?
I am indeed signed up, having been an Alcor client for 20 years.
Ironically I chose full-body suspension as opposed to so-called neurosuspension (head only) on the theory that the spinal cord and peripheral nervous system might include information useful for reconstruction and recovery. Now it turns out that half of this data will be largely destroyed by the disease. Makes me wonder if I should convert to neuro.
Indeed even the popular (mis)conception of head-only revival wouldn’t be that bad for me, not unlike the state I will have lived in for a while. In fact it would really be better in many ways if I could somehow lose my body once I become paralyzed, since it will be a potential source of pain signals and also a lot of work for caregivers to deal with. But I doubt that the technology is there yet.
That is very, very, very good to hear. Sorry, I had to ask that question first before I knew to say:
I’m sorry to hear about your diagnosis. I wish you the best in staying alive. I congratulate you on the wisdom that you have shown and are showing in making your decisions well and in advance. And may you be a lesson and exemplar to all those other readers who will, in one future world or another, walk a path much like yours.
I’m glad to hear you’re already signed up and already have life insurance. I don’t know what I’d have done if you’d said otherwise. Beat my head against a wall, maybe. I’ve known you for as long as I’ve been part of the transhumanist community I joined as my first step into adulthood.
Have you heard about this? http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2009/10/new-book-says-ted-williams-frozen-head-was-abused.html
Oh yeah, I was going to reply to this. I read the article, and it seems like 90% of it is pure cryonics-bashing. Basically just making fun of those transhumanist nuts. The only parts that were really concerning was the part about knocking the tuna can off of Williams’ head with a wrench, and the suggestion that Williams’ will stated that he wanted to be cremated. But it’d be interesting to read the book it referenced—I bet it presents a much fairer view.
Johnson’s trying to sell a book. Alcor has sued him twice and won twice, and I believe his latest book violates a court injunction.
The part about the tuna can and wrench was indeed the only concerning thing, and it would be nice to see an explicit denial from Alcor on this point. But my own reaction can be best summed up as “pics or it didn’t happen”. Johnson has credibility zero, and the only reason I’m assigning non-zero probability, at this point, is because Alcor didn’t explicitly focus in on the wrench and deny the event.
EDIT: Good, they just did deny it explicitly. “In his book and during the Nightline segment, Mr. Johnson claimed he witnessed Alcor staff striking Ted William’s head with a wrench. Mr. Johnson, who was an executive with authority over the procedure in question, also claimed he said nothing about the purported incident when it allegedly occurred nor did he bring it to the attention of any other staff or board member. In fact, multiple individuals verified as documented witnesses to patient transfer procedures state without hesitation that Mr. Johnson’s claims are pure fabrication. Alcor’s internal investigation did not reveal any reports or recollections of any Alcor patient ever being struck by a wrench or any other object, accidentally or otherwise… Johnson’s statements about tissue debris, tuna, and cats are fictionalized accounts crafted for maximum tabloid shock value, as is nearly the entirety of his book. Alcor denies exposing patients to any devices or equipment that are not appropriate for their function, clean, and sterile as required.” Presumably they were finishing up the internal investigation before issuing the denial.
It’s plain sensationalism, IMO.
Oh, not sure if you heard about this, but apparently there was some Alcor and CI sponsored research and the result was basically that it’s a really good idea to make arrangements for, well, if anything happens to you to begin being cooled immediately, and actually even better, to have your blood washed out. India ink and rat ( :( ) experiments suggest that being a warm body for even a couple hours is enough to more or less cause effects like thickening blood and so on to more or less prevent any significant amount of cryoprotectant from actually ending up in the brain. (AFAIK, they’re working on updating their suspension protocols based on this info)
An immediate water+ice bath makes a big difference, and immediately washing out the blood makes a HUGE difference.
(At least, such info was presented by the experimenters when I went to the CI general meeting a couple weeks ago. I’m having some trouble finding info this specific research at the moment, though.)
Just figured you probably ought to know this for when you start to be at increased risk, so you may want to look into those experiments and make arrangements with regards to that.
Here’s hoping though that this is all academic and that you won’t actually need this, as it were.
EDIT: IIRC, it was these two that did that research and presented those results.
Refer to case summary A-2435, a recent patient who was able to become the “most expedient cases expedient cases from bedside to cryopreservation procedures that Alcor has ever experienced” by ensuring she was as geographically close to Alcor as possible when preservation became necessary:
http://www.alcornews.org/weblog/2009/09/case_summary_a2435_member_a243.html
Linkrot marches on; the summary is here and the full case report is here. (The former says that A-2435 is Alcor’s 88th patient, the latter the 89th, which is a bit odd.)
To what extent, if any, did your choice of signing up years ago modify the impact of the bad news ?
From a certain point of view, your diagnosis enhances the value of having purchased the cryonics option. You can be reasonably certain that when the end comes it will be predictable and you will be in an environment that makes suspension and transport easier.
Also I imagine that financing suspension with a life insurance policy becomes a different proposition, financially, after you’ve been diagnosed with ALS.
I’ve been putting it off, myself, for a bunch of reasons including the usual of looking like a very long shot and the social stigma, but mostly because at the moment it’s such a US thing and there is so very little guidance to be had if you live elsewhere (I’m in France). Your example is making me rethink that. I suppose I should just fire off an email to Alcor and CI and see what they can tell me.
It was actually extremely reassuring as the reality of the diagnosis sunk in. I was surprised, because I’ve always considered cryonics a long shot. But it turns out that in this kind of situation, it helps tremendously to have reasons for hope, and cryonics provides another avenue for a possibly favorable outcome. That is a good point that my circumstances may allow for a well controlled suspension which could improve my odds somewhat.
You’re right though that with this diagnosis, life insurance is no longer an option. In retrospect I would be better off if I had purchased more life insurance for my family, as well as long term care insurance for myself. Of course, that doesn’t change the considerations which made those seem to be unattractive gambles beforehand.
Neuro is cheaper than whole-body, isn’t it? Take some equity out of your cryonics insurance plan and use it for your (pre-deanimation) care.
Keep the equity in your insurance plan in case suspension prices go up over time.
I think you probably should. There’s no real upside to preserving your body as you say, and there’s a very real cost. (What’s Alcor’s differential? IIRC, it was many thousands of dollars.)
You could direct the excess money somewhere else, like your family (presumably ALS will have a big economic impact on them—treatment expenses, reduced earnings, etc. - even if you live out a natural lifespan). Or you could donate it straight to Alcor: I’m sure they have better things to do with say $20,000 than spend it on freezing some meat that doesn’t need freezing.
Well, you need your torso, but perhaps not your limbs. shudder