What bottom line are you suggesting this contest has written into it? That cryonics is something that some utilitarians would support under some circumstances? Why is supporting cryonics more controversial than running someone over with a trolley car all of a sudden?
The only filter I’m putting up is a small chunk of prize money, and the only filter is to stay on topic with regards to a specific set of implicitly pro-cryonics issues that I am interested in. Anyone who wants to attack cryonics in a well-written essay is free to do so—I’m simply under no obligation to pay them for it.
I think the problem that people are having is that it’s generally considered an exercise in rhetoric (AKA “dark arts” on LW) to mentally compose an argument with the conclusion already in mind (as opposed to impartially settling upon whatever conclusion the logic leads to) unless you’re attempting to steel-man a position you disagree with. Presumably, doing so will enhance confirmation bias. This is the reason that contrarians and devil’s-advocate-lovers are common among intellectual circles
That cryonics is something that some utilitarians would support under some circumstances?
Yes, I think that’s it. “Bottom line” refers to the conclusion that you must eventually arrive at in order for your essay to qualify.
By army1987′s usage of “bottom line”, an essay contest without a bottom line asks a question, but does not presuppose an answer. An essay contest with a bottom line specifies a conclusion, and asks participants to think of the most clever way to arrive at that conclusion.
Disclaimer: I myself do not think that existence of essay contests with “bottom lines” is necessarily bad practice, although I’m not willing to give an unqualified yay / boo because I haven’t thought about it sufficiently.
Edit:: I suspect that it’s okay if the writer and audience is aware of the potentially bias-inducing nature of the format, and wish to use the format explore the space of arguments for a certain position. You might even change your mind this way (In a “really? That’s the best argument for this?) sort of way.
The efficient charity essay contest had a bottom line, it just wasn’t something anyone would be likely to dispute (and which had been previously argued for on Less Wrong). Qualified entries were supposed to explain, in less jargonistic terms, that you should optimize for utilions rather than fuzzies. The idea in that case was to put the existing ideas in more layman-friendly terms.
If the bottom line we’re discussing is just “some utilitarians in some situations support cryonics”, my thinking is that it shouldn’t be controversial, since that’s pretty much already implied by the fungibility of utility. At least, if the opposite were true, I’d be surprised and want a good explanation for it. But I’m wondering if there’s a more subtle issue—perhaps it is being experienced as implying in some dark-artsy way something like “no rational utilitarian would ever oppose cryonics”, something I never intended (and don’t agree with).
Another explanation is that there’s a real disagreement about the relative plausibility of utilitarians supporting cryonics. I have more or less implied (by the existence of the contest) that it is fairly plausible for lots of kinds of utilitarians. That is something I actually think, but is open to question. Some might be thinking it is fairly implausible for most kinds of utilitarians. It could be seen as a dark arts move on my part, that I didn’t really give the opposite perspective much consideration in composing the contest.
However, the results of the contest should render that idea more of a testable prediction than it was before the contest. If it’s right, it should be possible to critique most of the essays produced for the contest by pointing out how implausible the scenarios are or how odd/implausible the particular kind of utilitarianism they discuss are. If it’s wrong, at least some of the scenarios should be fairly plausible ones for realistic utilitarianisms.
This one didn’t have any bottom line already written in.
What bottom line are you suggesting this contest has written into it? That cryonics is something that some utilitarians would support under some circumstances? Why is supporting cryonics more controversial than running someone over with a trolley car all of a sudden?
The only filter I’m putting up is a small chunk of prize money, and the only filter is to stay on topic with regards to a specific set of implicitly pro-cryonics issues that I am interested in. Anyone who wants to attack cryonics in a well-written essay is free to do so—I’m simply under no obligation to pay them for it.
I think the problem that people are having is that it’s generally considered an exercise in rhetoric (AKA “dark arts” on LW) to mentally compose an argument with the conclusion already in mind (as opposed to impartially settling upon whatever conclusion the logic leads to) unless you’re attempting to steel-man a position you disagree with. Presumably, doing so will enhance confirmation bias. This is the reason that contrarians and devil’s-advocate-lovers are common among intellectual circles
Yes, I think that’s it. “Bottom line” refers to the conclusion that you must eventually arrive at in order for your essay to qualify.
By army1987′s usage of “bottom line”, an essay contest without a bottom line asks a question, but does not presuppose an answer. An essay contest with a bottom line specifies a conclusion, and asks participants to think of the most clever way to arrive at that conclusion.
Disclaimer: I myself do not think that existence of essay contests with “bottom lines” is necessarily bad practice, although I’m not willing to give an unqualified yay / boo because I haven’t thought about it sufficiently.
Edit:: I suspect that it’s okay if the writer and audience is aware of the potentially bias-inducing nature of the format, and wish to use the format explore the space of arguments for a certain position. You might even change your mind this way (In a “really? That’s the best argument for this?) sort of way.
The efficient charity essay contest had a bottom line, it just wasn’t something anyone would be likely to dispute (and which had been previously argued for on Less Wrong). Qualified entries were supposed to explain, in less jargonistic terms, that you should optimize for utilions rather than fuzzies. The idea in that case was to put the existing ideas in more layman-friendly terms.
If the bottom line we’re discussing is just “some utilitarians in some situations support cryonics”, my thinking is that it shouldn’t be controversial, since that’s pretty much already implied by the fungibility of utility. At least, if the opposite were true, I’d be surprised and want a good explanation for it. But I’m wondering if there’s a more subtle issue—perhaps it is being experienced as implying in some dark-artsy way something like “no rational utilitarian would ever oppose cryonics”, something I never intended (and don’t agree with).
Another explanation is that there’s a real disagreement about the relative plausibility of utilitarians supporting cryonics. I have more or less implied (by the existence of the contest) that it is fairly plausible for lots of kinds of utilitarians. That is something I actually think, but is open to question. Some might be thinking it is fairly implausible for most kinds of utilitarians. It could be seen as a dark arts move on my part, that I didn’t really give the opposite perspective much consideration in composing the contest.
However, the results of the contest should render that idea more of a testable prediction than it was before the contest. If it’s right, it should be possible to critique most of the essays produced for the contest by pointing out how implausible the scenarios are or how odd/implausible the particular kind of utilitarianism they discuss are. If it’s wrong, at least some of the scenarios should be fairly plausible ones for realistic utilitarianisms.